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the immediacy and efficacy of flu shots
https://nogoblinsallowed.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=534
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Author:  rstnme [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  the immediacy and efficacy of flu shots

So, I work in a fancy hospital, and just got my required flu shot. About how long does it take to make you feel like crap? How long will I feel like crap? Will this craptastic feeling even be worth it?

Author:  iamajellydonut [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: the immediacy and efficacy of flu shots

I have never had a flu shot on the basis of "I'm a mangy hippy who's cheap and doesn't care also yolo", but the only people I have known who received the flu shot (well, the olny people I'm aware of I'm certain there's probably more) are my mum and one of my cousins. And both felt like absolute **** for an overtly long amount of time. My cousin still complains about her arm. My cousin and my mum are also both notorious complainers. However, that doesn't diminish the validity of their claims to absolute nil. If you feel like ****, get ready for the long haul.

Author:  Ko [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: the immediacy and efficacy of flu shots

flu shots are fine and anyone who complains is a baby

Author:  Van [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: the immediacy and efficacy of flu shots

No you fool now you have autism!!!

Author:  Ko [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: the immediacy and efficacy of flu shots

I already had autism B^(

Author:  Yarium [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: the immediacy and efficacy of flu shots

Generally speaking, you will probably feel pretty crappy (if you feel crappy at all) within 24 hrs, and that will last between 24 and 48 hrs.

Will it be worth it?

Yes - but ONLY if most people get a flu shot to.


It's the magic of probabilities and numbers. Single exposure to the flu virus doesn't have massive probabilities of infecting you, but continued exposure will make it almost a certainty. By just increasing the group's resistence to a virus by a little bit, you can cause a dramatic change in the spread of the virus.

Here's a math experiment. Say 1 in 4 people (Group A) will be infected every time they are exposed, but after a flu shot that number inches down just 20% to 1 in 5 people (Group B). Let's also assume that during each "exposure", everyone with the virus comes in contact with a group of 20 people. How fast will the virus spread?

Exposure 1:
Group A: infects 5 people
Group B: infects 4 people

Exposure 2:
Group A: infects 25 people
Group B: infects 16 people

Exposure 3:
Group A: infects 125 people
Group B: infects 64 people

...

At Exposure 10, Group A is infecting 9,765,625 people (assuming all new infections) for a total of 12,207,131 people having been infected. Group B is infecting only 1,048,576, for a total of 1,398,101. The 20% difference of infection rates has resulted in a massive drop of almost 90% in the number of total people infected. Individually, their chances of being infected have only gone down by 20% when exposed, but as a group they are much less likely to be exposed in the first place.

Now, I've done a lot of poor math here - but it is a good representation of how a small change can have large implications. The biggest thing I'm missing from this simulation is how people will generally not become sick again with the same virus, limiting the spread. If anything, that should reduce the number of people exposed as the simulation goes on (there's a point where someone in either group may already be surrounded by others who have already been infected or are already immune), resulting in a lot fewer people at Exposure 10.


So yeah, overall impact for you? Minor. Overall impact for everyone at the hospital where you work? Major.

Author:  gnomebitten [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: the immediacy and efficacy of flu shots

Ko wrote:
I already had autism B^(


lol

Author:  Glare_of_the_Loxodon [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: the immediacy and efficacy of flu shots

I dunno about that particular flu shot you just got, but not all shots give you the crappy feeling. It depends on whether the vaccine has neutered live viruses or just chunks of dead ones (the former gives the crappy feeling).

Yarium's hypothetical scenario is kinda flawed because 1) working in a hospital with immunocompromised patients changes things somewhat, and 2) asymptomatic infection and subsequent transfer. But yeah the gist is there.

Author:  Just_a_cleric [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the immediacy and efficacy of flu shots

I remember I got a call out in 2009 with the swine flu going on.
As teacher I was supposed to get one because I work with so many people in a day.

Anyway, I'm pretty indifferent to those kind of things as long as I don't have to pay for them. Had shots more often in life.

Author:  Flaming Babies [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the immediacy and efficacy of flu shots

Do we even know we're getting flu shots? If everyone feels like **** after, maybe the flu shots are actually part of a top secret government program to addict everyone to heroin and/or sterilize the population and people are getting the flu regardless.

Author:  Yarium [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the immediacy and efficacy of flu shots

I've always wondered why conspiracy theorists thought that any government would want to self-sterilize. After all, population = power, right?

Author:  Lokiare [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the immediacy and efficacy of flu shots

rstnme wrote:
So, I work in a fancy hospital, and just got my required flu shot. About how long does it take to make you feel like crap? How long will I feel like crap? Will this craptastic feeling even be worth it?


I haven't read the thread but let me their some info your way. There are only about 8 major strains of flu. you have to get a flu shot every year because doing it artificially like that does not stick in the immune system.

you normally have a 14% chance of getting the flu each year (I'm on my phone or I would link the CDC website). Flu shots drop this to about 12%. Simply taking vitamin C and D without a flu shot drops it to 9%.

now each time you get a flu shot you have around a 12% chance of dying, 22% chance of getting permanent brain damage or becoming autistic depending on which shot you get. you are especially at risk if you have a thin blood brain barrier something that results in hypoglycemia or headache when consuming aspertame.

the fact that they want you to take a short to even go to work is horrible. I'd just forge the papers and ignore it. I'm not going to risk dying every year for any job...

Author:  Lokiare [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the immediacy and efficacy of flu shots

Yarium wrote:
Generally speaking, you will probably feel pretty crappy (if you feel crappy at all) within 24 hrs, and that will last between 24 and 48 hrs.

Will it be worth it?

Yes - but ONLY if most people get a flu shot to.


It's the magic of probabilities and numbers. Single exposure to the flu virus doesn't have massive probabilities of infecting you, but continued exposure will make it almost a certainty. By just increasing the group's resistence to a virus by a little bit, you can cause a dramatic change in the spread of the virus.

Here's a math experiment. Say 1 in 4 people (Group A) will be infected every time they are exposed, but after a flu shot that number inches down just 20% to 1 in 5 people (Group B). Let's also assume that during each "exposure", everyone with the virus comes in contact with a group of 20 people. How fast will the virus spread?

Exposure 1:
Group A: infects 5 people
Group B: infects 4 people

Exposure 2:
Group A: infects 25 people
Group B: infects 16 people

Exposure 3:
Group A: infects 125 people
Group B: infects 64 people

...

At Exposure 10, Group A is infecting 9,765,625 people (assuming all new infections) for a total of 12,207,131 people having been infected. Group B is infecting only 1,048,576, for a total of 1,398,101. The 20% difference of infection rates has resulted in a massive drop of almost 90% in the number of total people infected. Individually, their chances of being infected have only gone down by 20% when exposed, but as a group they are much less likely to be exposed in the first place.

Now, I've done a lot of poor math here - but it is a good representation of how a small change can have large implications. The biggest thing I'm missing from this simulation is how people will generally not become sick again with the same virus, limiting the spread. If anything, that should reduce the number of people exposed as the simulation goes on (there's a point where someone in either group may already be surrounded by others who have already been infected or are already immune), resulting in a lot fewer people at Exposure 10.


So yeah, overall impact for you? Minor. Overall impact for everyone at the hospital where you work? Major.


All that's assuming people don't wash their hands and sneeze into their shoulders. The CDC sys infection is around 14%.

Author:  Yarium [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the immediacy and efficacy of flu shots

The flu shot does not have a 12% chance of killing you, and the study (there was only one) about it causing autism was a sample size of 5 children. Here's a section from Penn & Teller's: **** episode on Vaccinations:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfdZTZQvuCo

Author:  Lokiare [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the immediacy and efficacy of flu shots

Yarium wrote:
The flu shot does not have a 12% chance of killing you, and the study (there was only one) about it causing autism was a sample size of 5 children. Here's a section from Penn & Teller's: bull**** episode on Vaccinations:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfdZTZQvuCo


there was more than one study. In fact most of the studies now show a link between the two. I'm getting most of my days from the CDC website. when I get on my computer I'll link it... or you could just look it up...

Author:  Ko [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the immediacy and efficacy of flu shots

Lokiare wrote:
now each time you get a flu shot you have around a 12% chance of dying, 22% chance of getting permanent brain damage or becoming autistic depending on which shot you get.



hahahahahahahahahahaha oh my god

Author:  Lokiare [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the immediacy and efficacy of flu shots

found a link gonna try to put it on using my phone.

list of studies...

Author:  Ko [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the immediacy and efficacy of flu shots

man, everyone whose ever had a flu shot must be really lucky if there is a more-than-one-in-ten chance of death each time

Author:  Lokiare [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the immediacy and efficacy of flu shots

here's another good one...

about the flu

Author:  Van [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the immediacy and efficacy of flu shots

Lokiare wrote:
now each time you get a flu shot you have around a 12% chance of dying, 22% chance of getting permanent brain damage or becoming autistic depending on which shot you get. you are especially at risk if you have a thin blood brain barrier something that results in hypoglycemia or headache when consuming aspertame.

I dont even

edit litearlly how can you think a flu shot has a 12% chance to kill you everyone you know would be dropping like flies

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