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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:09 am 
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Promised Land
Sorcery (U)
Search your library for a basic land card and exile it with a time counter on it. If it doesn’t have suspend, it gains suspend. Then shuffle. (At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a time counter. When the last is removed, play it if it's your turn and you have an available land play remaining.)
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A peculiar Evolving Wilds / Terramorphic Expanse variant. Also, yes, I've looked into it - it should work.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:54 am 
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I like the idea, but this also feels undercosted compared to Ash Barrens; which yes it is also a land in and of itself so it doesnt have one functionality like this, but both this and that are essentially delayed color fixers.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 4:54 pm 
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I like the idea, but this also feels undercosted compared to Ash Barrens; which yes it is also a land in and of itself so it doesnt have one functionality like this, but both this and that are essentially delayed color fixers.
Being a land that comes untapped and can be played and tapped for right away the turn you draw it and so on is an obviously huge advantage which Barrens has over this. It isn't even that related as far as I'm concerned because of that - being a colorless untapped land is notable thing of its own and you can't really put that much of a bonus effect on such a land generally speaking.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:25 pm 
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Tahazzar wrote:
I like the idea, but this also feels undercosted compared to Ash Barrens; which yes it is also a land in and of itself so it doesnt have one functionality like this, but both this and that are essentially delayed color fixers.
Being a land that comes untapped and can be played and tapped for right away the turn you draw it and so on is an obviously huge advantage which Barrens has over this. It isn't even that related as far as I'm concerned because of that - being a colorless untapped land is notable thing of its own and you can't really put that much of a bonus effect on such a land generally speaking.


Uh, what?

Brushland
Wooded Bastion
Blinkmoth Nexus
Inkmoth Nexus
Darksteel Citadel
Gavony Township
Academy Ruins
Tendo Ice Bridge
Mutavault
Mishra's Factory
Urza's Factory
Urza's Tower
Phyrexian Tower
Volrath's Stronghold
... and so many more

They even had "T: Add C" on the trilands from Homelands ... like entering the battlefield untapped is a big deal for lands that produce at least one color with an upside, but colorless can be slapped on pretty much anything with no consequence. The only etb colorless land I know of atm is Power Depot, and that is most likely because it is a five color mana fixer for artifacts.

But that rant aside, this card is a 0 mana Lay of the Land, with the caveat that you only get to play that land during your next turn and must play it on that turn. Which ... is pretty small compared to the fact that it A) costs 0 to cast and B) helps fix your mana. Yes, there are several cards strictly better than lay of the land, but there isn't one that costs , even with drawbacks (well Land Grant I guess, but that doesn't help your case as Land Grant is a favorite of glass cannon combo in Legacy).

Edit: I just now realized you could be sarcastic when you say that; if so I apologize for lacking a sense of humor.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:33 am 
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My apologies beforehand, long reply ahead.
But that rant aside, this card is a 0 mana Lay of the Land, with the caveat that you only get to play that land during your next turn and must play it on that turn. Which ... is pretty small compared to the fact that it A) costs 0 to cast and B) helps fix your mana. Yes, there are several cards strictly better than lay of the land, but there isn't one that costs , even with drawbacks (well Land Grant I guess, but that doesn't help your case as Land Grant is a favorite of glass cannon combo in Legacy).

Edit: I just now realized you could be sarcastic when you say that; if so I apologize for lacking a sense of humor.
No, I wasn't being sarcastic - it is a notable thing imo as I said.

I think generally when we speak of this type of land, we're talking of a card like Zhalfirin Void - and even it has seem some serious discussion relating to it where to run it. Now, given it only scries 1, it place itself alongside the Temple cycle. Scry 1 is a 0 mana effect if even that (I think Scry 2 would still be a 0-mana sorcery/instant) so what one actually gets for the cost of a land drop is basically just the land that comes untapped and can tap for colorless.

It's important to understand the context of power with the cards you link there. Stuff like Mutavault, Mishra's Factory and Inkmoth Nexus seem to get an effect more along the lines of 1 mana (ie. Genju of the Spires) which is a concernable overstep but not exactly surprising those cards are all-stars in numerous formats (the top percentile). Similarly, Wooded Bastion and rest of its cycle from Shadowmoor are one of the few lands strong enough to be regularly mixed and even at times contesting the power of shock+fetch land base. Considering that shock/fetches are strong enough to have been wrapping several formats around them for decades and basically making basic lands defunct, being able to spar with them should raise some eyebrows.

Stuff like Phyrexian Tower, Volrath's Stronghold, and Academy Ruins are all legendary which does give them some leeway albeit I don't think as much as designer's think as again, I think pretty much all of those are the top percentile of their respective category of cards. Having an ability like being indestructible or some high cost activated ability like what many of the rest of those cards is more along the power level I would expect.



I think the thing that can make it hard to even forget the power of just being a "nonbasic Wastes" is the long practice of it being pretty much mandatory to have lands tap for mana.

There might be some discussion to be had how much worth is that mana ability on a land exactly. Currently there isn't a clear precedent there since most of that precedent is made up of very dubious old cards: Arena, Bazaar of Baghdad, The Tabernacle at Pendrell, Unholy Citadel, Sorrow's Path, Island of Wak-Wak, Diamond Valley, Safe Haven, Dark Depths, etc. Notably it seems that the power level of these cards swingy wildly all over the blace from "utter garbage" tier to being close to restricted in vintage.

One of these that to my eye seems "reasonable" balanced is Safe Haven but it sadly doesn't have as good of a comparison card as an artifact that I had hoped. Closest seems to be Cold Storage where the comparison isn't clear-cut but it does seem to indicate that the cost of a land drop play requirement is quite high and this ties back to the cost of being an untapped "nonbasic Wastes" on top of that. It's hard to say exactly but it seems the cost of a land as a nonland card would be like 1 to 2 mana where being a "nonbasic Wastes" would take about 75% of that cost. I think you could prolly take an effect of an artifact worth about 1,5 mana (one and a half) and slap it to a land that can't be tapped for mana (nor turn itself into another land by fetching). Might be worth looking into.



I don't understand why you are trying to compare it to a Lay of the Land when it seems like that strange comparison would match also Evolving Wilds which I think is the much better comparison point here. Both get you an untapped basic land at the cost of a land drop.

Maybe you have misunderstood a part of its functionality?



Anyways, I've been thinking about the Evolving comparison and here's some things I noticed.
Quote:
With Evolving: Turn 1) You first play Evolving Wilds and crack, getting a tapped basic. Turn 2) You play a Boros Guildgate. You now have an untapped basic and a tapped Guildgate.

With Promised: Turn 1) You cast Promised land and play a tapped Boros Guildgate. Turn 2) You play the suspend land from exile. You now have an untapped basic land and an untapped Guildate.

This seems great.
On the other hand...
Quote:
Let's say you are mana-screwed and top-decking lands.

With Evolving: Turn N) You top deck evolving, crack it and get an untapped basic land. Turn N+1) You top deck a land and play it - all good.

With Promised: Turn N) You top deck promised and cast it. Turn N+1) You play the suspended land from exile. You top deck a land - you are now unable to play that land since you just played the suspended land.

This seems bad.
The comparison seems unclear though I think it's in the favor of Promised in general(?)

Then there's the whole thing with comparing "cracking the land" element with being a 0-cost sorcery; ie. prowess and Pyromancer Ascension triggers or whatnot in contrast to "infinite value" with Ramunap Excavator, feeding the bin for like Deathrite Shaman and so on. This is another very fuzzy thing to evaluate.

In any case, even if it's stronger than terra or evolving, I doubt its anywhere near the power of Prismatic Vista for example.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 6:57 am 
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1) ... I cant believe that is an actual article on ModernNexus; then again card selection is already limited in Modern with Top, Ponder, and Preordain banned, so I can see why it may be a consideration for that format. However, that is within the context of Modern, not all sets. Also Wooded Bastion and Brushland still have the add C as compensation for when the xolor fixing ability can't be activated

2) There isn't anything considerable about being able to produce C; only two sets from a single block in the entire existence of MtG use the colorless-only mana symbol in costs, so effectively add C is just a worse version of add O (five color mana symbol used on NGA).

3) Evolving Wilds gets a land into play --tapped-- whereas this gets it into play untapped for no investment cost, including life payment like Prismatic Vista. The only caveat is that you have to wait one turn to get the land, but it doesnt actually slow development down as you can still play a land then play this, then not have to worry about a land drop next turn.

4) If you are top decking, the more likely than not you are at a point where you dont need to keep building mana or fixing your colors, and would instead prefer to have a card to actually do something with. That in mind, keeping a land in your hand to bluff a spell would be better than simply slamming a land down and revealing information.

5) But again, you mention Prismatic Vista, but this is essentially the same except with Vista you pay 1 life to get the land immediately and with this you pay 0 (not even a land drop like Wilds or Expanse) to get it at the start of your next turn. So not as strong in terms of a turn 1 play, but almost better when used on Turn 1 in preparation for Turn 2.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 7:50 am 
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1) ...
1) As I noted, Wooded Bastion and friends of its cycle are few of the duel lands that can contend with fetch/shocks which are straight-up absurd so that speaks as to their likely overtuned nature which imo renders them highly questionable for this sort of comparison. Painlands making you take 1 damage for each colorful mana activation seems to be more in-line what I would expect from a more ordinary sort of custom set with about power level being somewhere between standard-to-modern.

2) There isn't anything considerable about being able to produce colorless mana per se: what however is notable that it can produce mana at all and on the turn it enters. This is why I started talking about what you can have a land do without having any sort of mana producing ability - or fetching into a land - since that would give one a clue how much having a mana producing ability is generally priced (ignoring that land designs without mana producing abilities are considered a bad practice by current WotC conventions).

3) Whether you have a land come into play tapped this turn or have it come into untapped next turn have the exact same outcome in practice - also both of them spend a land play. That you backload the land play for the next turn does indeed come with certain advantages as I noted, but it also comes with the drawback of pre-emptively spending your next turn land play, however niche, where if you don't have any (other) lands to play this turn and next turn you do get a land you want to play, you can't since you already spend it to play the suspended land where as an Evolving wouldn't have screwed you over.

4) The specific scenario there was for when you are mana screwed and you need to play the lands you top deck. Just in general, this can mess up your land play rhythm by backloading the land play pre-emptively.

5) Yes. The concern there perhaps being that Vista is to-modern-directly print so it might not be that recommended of a print for a standard set which then points to this whether this is too much of a stretch. I don't think it's clear whether this is the case but I think it seems quite plausible not to mess things up too badly - just slightly better Evolving from what I can see. I mean, we have seen even fetch prints in standard not too long ago (which not too surprisingly turned the format decks into 3+ color messes basically) so I guess it's kinda like whatever.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:56 am 
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3) Focusing on this point specifically as this is what seems to be what we're not seeing eye to eye on.

Having to use a land drop to have a land enter the battlefield tapped means you have one less mana to spend for that turn.

Having to use your land drop during your upkeep on a future turn to have a land enter the battlefield untapped doesn't have that same loss of mana for a turn; you can still play a land untapped the turn before this resolves and thus have colorfixing without sacrificing your curve.

Ash Barrens and Lay of the Land effects get around this by being Evolving Wilds that you tap another land for to have the land they get enter the battlefield untapped; like an investment of sorts. Regardless of when the mana shortage happens however, it still happens. This does not have that same issue.

That all said, I dont believe it needs to cost a lot more; colorfixing that relies on a land drop seems to be between 0 and 1 CMC anyhow, and given the mechanics of Suspend, I could see this costing 1 or G with a Scry 1 attached to it to help prevent a redundant land draw.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2021 1:03 am 
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Wail of Penance
Creature — Spirit Angel (R)
Flying
When you cast ~, create two 1/1 white and black Spirit creature tokens with flying.
When a player controls more creatures than you, they sacrifice creatures equal to the difference.
[4/4]
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A banshee angel. Uses a state-based trigger.

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The Master held his palms aloft. "Behold my wounds," said He. The onlookers observed the cauterization and the sunlight that shone through His great hands... "Let there be pain."
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Last edited by Tahazzar on Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:26 pm 
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Neat. I like how it makes tokens that you'd usually love to have, but which actually make the card weaker in this case.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 3:53 am 
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Flowout
Instant (U)
Exile target creature if its mana value is less than or equal to the amount of unspent mana you have.
The aether from between worlds doesn't conform to the laws of substance.
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Another variant I was thinking about (-cost but with two new restrictions):
Quote:
Flowout
() Instant (U)
Exile target creature that entered the battlefield this turn if its mana value is less than or equal to the amount of unspent black mana you have.
The aether from between worlds doesn't conform to the laws of substance.
Visual render

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2021 4:04 pm 
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Everglade Outrider
Creature — Elf Knight (R)
Lands you control that entered the battlefield this turn have exalted and hexproof. (They can't be the targets of spells or abilities your opponents control and they have "Whenever a creature you control attacks alone, that creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn.")
[1/2]
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Here's a design I've been grinding away at for this past week. It doesn't quite feel like I got it where I wanted. :/

Also, I'm a bit unsure if that reminder is correct. Usually in these cases you would have the card itself have the keyword (exalted in this case) and then have its reminder here but dunno how to word the reminder text here exactly.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:33 am 
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Latent Lotus
Artifact (M)
, Tap three untapped creatures you control, Sacrifice ~: Add three mana of any one color.
Everyone is capable of beauty.
Visual render

Another lotus design. This is the type of custom design I imagine might have been posted previously by another designer.

The original version was legendary with "Tap three untapped permanents you control" but I concluded it's prolly broken enough as is even when limited to creatures.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:44 pm 
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Pretty sure the reminder text on Everglade Outrider is right.
I've never seen Latent Lotus before, but it does kind of look like something that might have been done before.

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*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:38 am 
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a triple post gogogo also 1-cmc gang

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Waive
Instant (U)
Until end of turn, target creature loses all abilities and gets -4/-4. This effect can't reduce its power nor toughness to less than 1.
It's not always a failure to give up.
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Quote:
Pure-Soul Initiate
Creature — Human Monk (U)
~'s power and toughness can't change.
Double strike
[1/1]
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Quote:
Unwarden
Creature — Human Warlock (R)
Menace
Ward (Whenever this creature becomes the target of a spell or ability an opponent controls, counter it unless that player pays .)
Whenever an opponent pays for ward, they lose 3 life unless they sacrifice a nonland permanent or discard a card.
[1/1]
Visual render

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The Master held his palms aloft. "Behold my wounds," said He. The onlookers observed the cauterization and the sunlight that shone through His great hands... "Let there be pain."
—The Book of Cataclysm, Syndicate Wars
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:14 am 
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Scrap Learning
Enchantment (R)
, Discard an artifact card: Draw a card.
, Sacrifice ~: Return target artifact card with mana value X or less from your graveyard to the battlefield. Activate only as a sorcery.
Sometimes 'later' becomes 'now'.
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The Master held his palms aloft. "Behold my wounds," said He. The onlookers observed the cauterization and the sunlight that shone through His great hands... "Let there be pain."
—The Book of Cataclysm, Syndicate Wars
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:14 am 
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Baleful as Death
Sorcery (M)
Lifelink (Damage dealt by this spell also causes you to gain that much life.)
~ deals Y damage to each of up to X targets, where Y is 13 minus your life total.
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The Master held his palms aloft. "Behold my wounds," said He. The onlookers observed the cauterization and the sunlight that shone through His great hands... "Let there be pain."
—The Book of Cataclysm, Syndicate Wars
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:10 am 
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That is quite a catchup card. 0 damage at full life, but a 1 life you can recover half your life total (and maybe kill somebody)
The name is basically an adjective. Might just be me, but I like my aura names adjective-y, but my instant/sorcery names verb-y.

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Cato wrote:
CotW is a method for ranking cards in increasing order of printability.

*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:01 am 
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TPmanW wrote:
That is quite a catchup card. 0 damage at full life, but a 1 life you can recover half your life total (and maybe kill somebody)
The name is basically an adjective. Might just be me, but I like my aura names adjective-y, but my instant/sorcery names verb-y.

Yeah it can do that. My main comparison card for it was Sorin's Vengeance which has no prerequirements to hit roughly as hard as this would optimally - albeit it also can't be used as removal.

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The Master held his palms aloft. "Behold my wounds," said He. The onlookers observed the cauterization and the sunlight that shone through His great hands... "Let there be pain."
—The Book of Cataclysm, Syndicate Wars
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:05 am 
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Couple of designs: I made this first card as a common Saga concept for Mithrahil and this sec—ALL HAIL THE GREAT LORD EGOTIST
Quote:
Stand Up Against Death
Enchantment — Saga (C)
I: You gain 3 life.
On the third day the apostate’s faith renewed.
III: Return target creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield.
Visual render
Quote:
Egotist Ascended
Legendary Enchantment Creature — God (M)
You may pay rather than pay this spell's mana cost.
Miracle (You may cast this card for its miracle cost when you draw it if it’s the first card you drew this turn.)
"I have become more than your feeble mortal senses can possibly comprehend."
[1/1]
Visual render

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The Master held his palms aloft. "Behold my wounds," said He. The onlookers observed the cauterization and the sunlight that shone through His great hands... "Let there be pain."
—The Book of Cataclysm, Syndicate Wars
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Bunch more of my designs!


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