It is currently Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:19 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5565 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 268, 269, 270, 271, 272, 273, 274 ... 279  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:00 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 01, 2014
Posts: 166
Identity: Able of Reproduce
Preferred Pronoun Set: Call me whatever; I find it enlightening
AzureShade wrote:
Just curious, why is everyone upset at phoenixes being openly aggressive?
No idea. I thought it was just being a territorial fire-bird monster.....which was fine.


Western dragons have a distinct, destructive connotation that really isn't compatible with Eastern ones I'm more used to. Phoenixes only have that rebirth symbolism, so it's easier to insert Eastern phoenix characteristics into it (Regal grace and benevolence).


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:06 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 6943
AzureShade wrote:
Just curious, why is everyone upset at phoenixes being openly aggressive?
No idea. I thought it was just being a territorial fire-bird monster.....which was fine.


Western dragons have a distinct, destructive connotation that really isn't compatible with Eastern ones I'm more used to. Phoenixes only have that rebirth symbolism, so it's easier to insert Eastern phoenix characteristics into it (Regal grace and benevolence).
Yeah, but a Bogardan Phoenix is basically just an angry burning bird.

_________________
magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:07 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 16, 2015
Posts: 1240
To be honest I wish that phoenixes were expanded upon more especially regarding the related mythology and symbolism the bird has in real life. I know that's not happening now but during the Roman times it was regarded as a symbol of the empire.

Ah well.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:27 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 10016
I'm going to be honest, I find all the dark skinned Serran angels a bit distracting. I'm not against the diversity, but this feels inconsistent with prior depictions.

Also, I'm with everyone else, the entire serra/benalia thing really sticks out as wrong if anyone knows anything about that. Y'know, like the cathedral wasn't even in Benalia.

This does do a little to endear Tiana to me considering I hated her last time, and the idea that she has an affinity for the machine because that's what she was meant to guard does a lot. But I'm still not on board for an angelic dork. Some seem to like her, but being an angel should mean more than being a person with wings, which means all those foibles don't belong on angels.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:35 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 01, 2014
Posts: 166
Identity: Able of Reproduce
Preferred Pronoun Set: Call me whatever; I find it enlightening
AzureShade wrote:
AzureShade wrote:
No idea. I thought it was just being a territorial fire-bird monster.....which was fine.


Western dragons have a distinct, destructive connotation that really isn't compatible with Eastern ones I'm more used to. Phoenixes only have that rebirth symbolism, so it's easier to insert Eastern phoenix characteristics into it (Regal grace and benevolence).
Yeah, but a Bogardan Phoenix is basically just an angry burning bird.

Which is why I'm not saying that the author did anything wrong, but rather voicing that it's something I feel odd about. Pinning it down more, I guess if it was framed in a way that felt like a destructive feminine aspect instead of neutral I'd not feel as weird.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:27 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 2792
Magic's idea of a phoenix is basically an eagle on fire though.

_________________
Matahouroa
Planeswalker's Guide
The Story

My Patreon:
https://www.patreon.com/Carliro
Image


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:22 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 30, 2015
Posts: 151
Preferred Pronoun Set: He/him/etc.
Did anyone else catch the anomalous depiction of Gerrard with a spear? A very Karona-esque spear, at that?


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:28 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 20, 2015
Posts: 112
Preferred Pronoun Set: He/him/his
This story did a lot to make Tiana's character a lot clearer to me. I do think she should be a little less human-esque because she's an angel, but I can better understand her now. I also don't understand why she was so different from the start. I could understand a lost angel who is searching for purpose and I could understand a lot of guilt and regret from losing the very thing that made her real. I also find it a bit weird that the others had to tell her what her purpose was. To me, it was funny how the Church had no idea what to do with her - she's a winged warrior woman so you're telling me you just have no clue where to fit this holy being? Overall though, I enjoyed this story and the writing. I really like Arvad's character though. The whole "the moment you turn undead in any capacity, your whole personality is overwritten with EVIL" trope always bothered me so I liked seeing a sentient undead who is struggling with the issue instead of just being like "lol I'm evil now guys."


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:42 am 
Online
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 01, 2015
Posts: 458
Barinellos wrote:
I'm going to be honest, I find all the dark skinned Serran angels a bit distracting. I'm not against the diversity, but this feels inconsistent with prior depictions.

If angels are born from their prayers of mortals, then maybe their physical appearance takes on some aspects of the mortals doing the preying.

Landis963 wrote:
Did anyone else catch the anomalous depiction of Gerrard with a spear? A very Karona-esque spear, at that?

Check out the art on Triumph of Gerrard. The spearhead is a little Wheatherlight. That is why Tiana was so distracted by it.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:56 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 10016
Angels being born of prayer is literally a totally new way for them to manifest*, especially the Serran angels. Even with that new method, Lyra was supposed to be created by Serra herself anyway.

*I'm totally okay with this explanation of how angels exist, but it's not one that existed prior to this story.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:08 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 15, 2013
Posts: 1931
Location: Roaming Dominaria
Barinellos wrote:
I'm going to be honest, I find all the dark skinned Serran angels a bit distracting. I'm not against the diversity, but this feels inconsistent with prior depictions.
Thank god I'm not the only one who feels that way. I'd be less bummed by it if it was just the generation of Serra angels that were reincarnated on Dominaria (you know, where black people have always been a thing) rather than Lyra and company. Serra's Realm always looked and felt very homogenous to me. The new Capashens (and that other Benalish knight) not looking like Gerrard and that random black Llanowar elf kinda draw awkward attention to themselves, too. Granted, none of it is impossible, it's just that they picked exactly the corners of the worldbuilding where it sticks out the most. The other side of that is that they made Naru Meha, Master Wizard lily white for no good reason. If you're going to do a callback to Kolo Meha, and the card is in a completely different colour of magic from the original character, and apparently has nothing to do with Bogardan or badass pyromancy at all, then at least make her vaguely resemble Kolo in the art. I'm not going to turn any of it into a problem or a big discussion, but I really don't understand what they were going for with some of those contradictory art choices.

Barinellos wrote:
Also, I'm with everyone else, the entire serra/benalia thing really sticks out as wrong if anyone knows anything about that. Y'know, like the cathedral wasn't even in Benalia.
Agreed, though for what it's worth, we now have Mesa Unicorn drawing a clear connection between Serra an Sursi. It doesn't mention the cathedral or Serra's death, but at least it acknowledges white-aligned places other than Benalia as well as the importance of Serra in Sursi.

_________________
"Enchant me with your tale-telling. Tell about Tree, Grass, River, and Wind.
Tell why Truth must fight with Falsehood, and why Truth will always win."
—Love Song of Night and Day


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:10 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 12, 2015
Posts: 675
Gosh, yeah. If only we had gotten the right kind of racial diversity, instead of this other wrong kind of racial diversity. Keep it inside this nice little safe playpen, where it belongs.

All racial diversity is good, and all earlier decisions that produced racial homogenization (especially white-presenting racial homogenization) where wrong and should just be arbitrarily changed. Yes, I will die on this hill.

_________________


"Ability words are flavor text for Melvins."

"Remember, dear friends: when we announce something and you imagine it, the odds that we made exactly that thing are zero."---Kelly Digges


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:38 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 01, 2014
Posts: 166
Identity: Able of Reproduce
Preferred Pronoun Set: Call me whatever; I find it enlightening
I don't mind the skin change for one big reason.

Look at the white cards as whole for the set. Aven and Angels are wearing similar garb, and the heads are small on the cards. Over all, WotC has been better at distinguishing Aven on the different planes on which they show up compared to Angels. While Serra angels were quite Aryan, Dominaria has had darker skinned angels. With the consolidation of Angels on the plane, it could explain why newer Serra Angels look the way they do. While it does make the older ones confusing, I'd also say we aren't actually sure about all the biological functions of Angels. For all we know, Angel pigment might actually adapt to promote homogeneity within the whole host. It's a dumb reach, but that's not the point. These are fantasy races and we're pretending they function as humans/real biology unless explicitly said.

The Capashens are more weird to me, since, as they are called descendants, I wonder when Gerrard actually sired offspring. It makes sense when Gerrard was with Kondo, but it makes him a worshiped hero who slept with a black tribeswoman who he promptly forgot about. I'm not sure that's a topic MtG wants to dive into at the moment.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:46 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 2792
Its stated that these Capashen are not direct descendants of Gerrard.

_________________
Matahouroa
Planeswalker's Guide
The Story

My Patreon:
https://www.patreon.com/Carliro
Image


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:05 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 10016
astarael7 wrote:
Gosh, yeah. If only we had gotten the right kind of racial diversity, instead of this other wrong kind of racial diversity. Keep it inside this nice little safe playpen, where it belongs.

All racial diversity is good, and all earlier decisions that produced racial homogenization (especially white-presenting racial homogenization) where wrong and should just be arbitrarily changed. Yes, I will die on this hill.

Oh, I dunno, it's just a matter of consistency.
Like say, if white people suddenly turned up as Jamuuran, that'd be just as distracting. And you know people would be throwing a bigger fit about that.

Dominaria has ALWAYS been diverse, between the likes of the Ghitu, Jamuura, Madara, and any of a host of other cultures.

_________________
At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:39 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 3572
Identity: Goblin Piker
Well, I'm really enjoying the story so far.

I assume they will either address the whole "Benalia accepts worship of Serra" eventually, or you can just real world analogue how religions become dominant. Or both.

_________________
Twitter: (at)MrEnglish22 if you want to reach me
My cube: http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/mrenglish22


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:47 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 15, 2013
Posts: 1931
Location: Roaming Dominaria
Jman22 wrote:
Well, I'm really enjoying the story so far.

I assume they will either address the whole "Benalia accepts worship of Serra" eventually, or you can just real world analogue how religions become dominant. Or both.
It's all cool as long as they don't come out and say Serra was actually involved in the invasion and actually died saving or healing Benalia. And I would appreciate a little nod to the Church of Angelfire. Kinda makes me wonder if this is all part of their nefarious scheme to pretend male angels don't exist...

_________________
"Enchant me with your tale-telling. Tell about Tree, Grass, River, and Wind.
Tell why Truth must fight with Falsehood, and why Truth will always win."
—Love Song of Night and Day


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:10 pm 
Offline
Wizards Staff
User avatar

Joined: Jan 26, 2015
Posts: 118
Preferred Pronoun Set: He/Him/His
One of the upcoming podcast episodes will be all about the Church of Serra. I think it's the best episode, personally.

I'm not sure if Kelly specifically talked about the Church of Angelfire in that episode, or if it's in the art book, but I'd be shocked if it wasn't discussed in one of those venues.

#WOTCstaff


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:20 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 28, 2013
Posts: 518
I actually don't mind Serra Angels now getting more diversity on skin tones or racial queues, I have had this notion back then that one of the Serra's Realm angels in Remembrance ain't white (I guess blame my eyes) that sort of made me accept it. And Serra herself didn't put into stone that "Hey, all my angels will be blonde and/or white skinned and sh*t till the end of time"...

I will be forever bitter tho with the Firemane Angels, because there was explicit mention that they are copies of Razia. The explanation given on why there is suddenly a change in their appearance was so massively hand-wavey. :V

WotC_Ethan wrote:
One of the upcoming podcast episodes will be all about the Church of Serra. I think it's the best episode, personally.

I'm not sure if Kelly specifically talked about the Church of Angelfire in that episode, or if it's in the art book, but I'd be shocked if it wasn't discussed in one of those venues.

#WOTCstaff

Oh, Lord.... here we go again. *dampens expectation down to 20%*

_________________


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:19 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 20, 2015
Posts: 112
Preferred Pronoun Set: He/him/his
If angels are manifested by the prayers of others then I'd imagine that the angels' appearances might be affected by those praying for them. I also don't think it's too unreasonable to have a Serran angel breaking from the standard aesthetic. Serra for sure encountered people of colour and may have decided to make some angels that looked like that. I admit I have very little experience with Dominaria's past so most of this is new to me but it doesn't bother me a lot, especially since they aren't pulling this ethnicity out of nowhere.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5565 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 268, 269, 270, 271, 272, 273, 274 ... 279  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group