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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:59 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
VLW wrote:
This really needed a once over from an editor, but editing's never been the story's strong suit.

Apparently, I still wasn't ready to deal with the fallout of Gideon's death.

I liked the callback to Nissa's ophidiophobia from Teeth of Akoum, although I'm a bit miffed at confused continuity. Nissa rejoined the Gatewatch in WotS, didn't she? But now Jace feels guilty for not convincing her to rejoin the Gatewatch?

She didn't make a new oath or anything.
And she didn't have any choice but to show up.



She definitely renewed her oath in Chapter 50 of War of the Spark: Ravnica.


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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:55 pm 
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VLW wrote:
Barinellos wrote:
VLW wrote:
This really needed a once over from an editor, but editing's never been the story's strong suit.

Apparently, I still wasn't ready to deal with the fallout of Gideon's death.

I liked the callback to Nissa's ophidiophobia from Teeth of Akoum, although I'm a bit miffed at confused continuity. Nissa rejoined the Gatewatch in WotS, didn't she? But now Jace feels guilty for not convincing her to rejoin the Gatewatch?

She didn't make a new oath or anything.
And she didn't have any choice but to show up.



She definitely renewed her oath in Chapter 50 of War of the Spark: Ravnica.

Eh, I like it better that she's selfish and not a team player

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:14 pm 
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Forsaken left it unclear if she had quiet again.


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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:31 pm 
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You can always take the third option and seeing them both as wrong tho

Except I really don't see Nahiri as wrong.
There'san argument to be made over imposing your will on others, even in the interest of 'the greater good' but..

**** the Roil, **** the Elementals, **** Zendikar, and **** Nissa.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:52 am 
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Her chosen method is proven to cause lethal collateral damage on its own though. I'm not asking someone with a nuke to make my world peaceful

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:41 am 
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There's a lot of charm in Nahiri still acting like an oldwalker would.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:57 am 
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Jivanmukta wrote:
There's a lot of charm in Nahiri still acting like an oldwalker would.
Well, she hasn't had a lot of time to not be an Old 'Walker. She got Helvaulted through the Mending and beyond. She's been part of this new reality for what...less than a year? After being an Old 'Walker for centuries?

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Last edited by AzureShade on Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:26 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:09 pm 
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Her chosen method is proven to cause lethal collateral damage on its own though. I'm not asking someone with a nuke to make my world peaceful

The Roil went off a minimum of 4 times when they were exploring.
How much lethal collateral damage happened?

How can Zendikar ever dig itself out of being a chaotic hellhole and truly build anything if they don't deal with the Roil?
And why should we care about the elementals? Because Nissa does?

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:23 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
Her chosen method is proven to cause lethal collateral damage on its own though. I'm not asking someone with a nuke to make my world peaceful

The Roil went off a minimum of 4 times when they were exploring.
How much lethal collateral damage happened?

How can Zendikar ever dig itself out of being a chaotic hellhole and truly build anything if they don't deal with the Roil?
And why should we care about the elementals? Because Nissa does?

Via the trailer, it looks like the power of the orb also sometimes kills people, but then again, it becomes sort of a sacrifice a few to set right an entire world type of scenario that red-white characters would revel in.

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You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:27 pm 
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The people of Zendikar do have stable city-states and settlements though, like Sea Gate, Malakir, Nimana, the Merfolk Enclave, etc. What they struggle to build are more far-ranging nations and empires like the ancient Makindi Empire that Nahiri wants to the restore. They talk about Zendikar lacking civilization but it's only lacking in comparison to like Ravnica, Ghirapur, and some areas of Dominaria. They are only slightly less established than like Konda's Towabara, which was what, some farming villages and two cities? Zendikar is comparable to places like Kamigawa outside of Towabara (villages and one big school), Odyssey-era Otaria (two big cities, scattered villages, and a bunch of nomads), Mirrodin (villages and Lumengrid), Ixalan except for the Sun Empire.

Vast wilderness, scattered villages, and a few established big cities is pretty standard fantasy and standard for much of Earth human civilization.


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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:55 pm 
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neru wrote:
Odyssey-era Otaria (two big cities, scattered villages, and a bunch of nomads)
Not that I care about Zendikar or anything, but for what it's worth, Odyssey-era Otaria technically also had the (pretty sophisticated) city of Eroshia, the Mer Empire, all of Tamingazin (at least retroactively) and several fiefdoms and smaller kingdoms that weren't really relevant to the story (we know that from scenes in the novels that are set in Topos and Eroshia).

Know-it-all mode deactivated. :paranoid:

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:34 pm 
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Why does zendikar need to have large cities and structures and humanoid settlements? Let it be a chaotic wild place.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:01 am 
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LilyStorm wrote:
Why does zendikar need to have large cities and structures and humanoid settlements? Let it be a chaotic wild place.

Because civilization is kind of the hallmark of... y'know Civilization.

Zendikar has never made any sense in any real way when it comes to economics or infrastructure. They can scarcely live better than hunter gatherers. We only know they barely have something like farms because of Bruse Tarl, and even THAT raises more questions of how any of that works. The population gets culled often enough that I guess they don't really need much stable food supply, but even then, it must suuuuuuuck to be a regular guy on Zendikar.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:33 am 
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Well to be fair human societies have managed to get very complex without the need of large settlements like Aboriginal Australians and their highly efficient agriculture, societal structures and extensive trade routes.

The Roil supposedly prevents tradea ccoridng to the article, but this is clearly not true based on how Zendikari culture is cosmopolitan and hires services from everywhere.

The Roil is a problem if you're attached to your home, but from a realistic standpoint is not the end of civilisation as much as Creative wants to depict it as such.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:31 am 
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Humans on Earth have adapted to living in the most extreme environments and that is without magic that can literally stop earthquakes or create spontaneous shields that block weather. Nomadic peoples are still people with culture and society. People cut farms into mountainsides, planted them in deserts, cultivated and shaped the Amazon. Again, many fantasy settings and real civilizations are just this: scattered rural villages, a few big cities, vast wilderness. The Roil sucks but the Zendikari are not living on Grixis or New Phyrexia, which count more as hellholes imo.

I'm repeating myself, but I really like this conflict set up between Nahiri and Nissa as white intervening to build up large structured, stable societies versus green letting people live and adapt within nature.

neru wrote:
Odyssey-era Otaria (two big cities, scattered villages, and a bunch of nomads)
Not that I care about Zendikar or anything, but for what it's worth, Odyssey-era Otaria technically also had the (pretty sophisticated) city of Eroshia, the Mer Empire, all of Tamingazin (at least retroactively) and several fiefdoms and smaller kingdoms that weren't really relevant to the story (we know that from scenes in the novels that are set in Topos and Eroshia).

Thanks for the clarification.


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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:15 am 
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We also have an unassociated story: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... 2020-09-04

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:03 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
LilyStorm wrote:
Why does zendikar need to have large cities and structures and humanoid settlements? Let it be a chaotic wild place.

Because civilization is kind of the hallmark of... y'know Civilization.

Zendikar has never made any sense in any real way when it comes to economics or infrastructure. They can scarcely live better than hunter gatherers. We only know they barely have something like farms because of Bruse Tarl, and even THAT raises more questions of how any of that works. The population gets culled often enough that I guess they don't really need much stable food supply, but even then, it must suuuuuuuck to be a regular guy on Zendikar.


What I mean is, it doesn't need civilization. Let nature reclaim the land

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:42 pm 
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There's also the fact that Nahiri didn't just kill the elemental, but also all of the plant life in the building. So there's a nonzero chance that using the core to stop the roil could just absolutely wreck the entire ecosystem of the plane.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:10 pm 
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We also have an unassociated story: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... 2020-09-04


Overall I quite like it, a down to earth piece.

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