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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:47 pm 
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WotC_Ethan wrote:
LilyStorm wrote:
Idk who marsail is


It's... complicated. Like, really, really complicated.

Indeed it is!

Thanks for knocking it out of the park with him. Really the classic lore commanders this year were great on the whole and if I have problems with any at least I can see and understand what their design was. it's a great job! I don't technically know that you were responsible for that, but if not then feel free to pass it along. :)

Is there any chance you can tell us where Inalla and Kess are from, though?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:45 pm 
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T A I G A M B O I Z

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It is impossible to describe how happy I am that the Khans timeline still 'exists' because damn it was so much better


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:54 pm 
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WotC_Ethan wrote:
LilyStorm wrote:
Idk who marsail is


It's... complicated. Like, really, really complicated.

Indeed it is!

Thanks for knocking it out of the park with him. Really the classic lore commanders this year were great on the whole and if I have problems with any at least I can see and understand what their design was. it's a great job! I don't technically know that you were responsible for that, but if not then feel free to pass it along. :)

Is there any chance you can tell us where Inalla and Kess are from, though?


My main contribution was finding the page with Mairsil's description from The Gathering Dark. I'll pass along your appreciation.

I'm afraid I don't know where Inalia and Kess are from. I assume Kess is from Grixis? How many places in the Multiverse have teeth? *shudder*


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:08 pm 
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Mata Hari wrote:
T A I G A M B O I Z

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It is impossible to describe how happy I am that the Khans timeline still 'exists' because damn it was so much better


Not enough dragons

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:58 am 
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Kelly posted some info about the C17 legends on twitter: https://twitter.com/kellydigges/status/ ... 2174874624

I will admit, what I've heard from and about Kelly and his knowledge about Magic's canon this week gives me hope for the return to Dominaria. We know he was heavily involved with that. He's also a great writer and the best at getting established characters and their voices right, which I would expect to be really important there. I was pretty afraid that there was no one left in Creative with a good working knowledge of Dominaria's past, but it should have been in safe hands with Kelly.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:12 am 
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Blood Tribute picked up some new art featuring Edgar, Sorin, and Olivia.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:09 pm 
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I get why they made the change, but I sometimes miss MtG's fat, monstrous vampires, versus the little common ones now.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:37 pm 
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neru wrote:
I get why they made the change, but I sometimes miss MtG's fat, monstrous vampires, versus the little common ones now.

Yeah, I'm the same way. I prefer vampires as the heavies, even if they were competing for space there with Demons. And of course, I've always thought needed an actual fantasy race as a common, not a created undead like vampires or zombies, who could come from any number of races.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 2:10 pm 
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I'm pretty disappointed by the vampire deck (well, mostly by Edgar's card and the fact that there's NO BARON SENGIR), but I'm getting it anyway. My playgroup found a cheap offer and now we're buying one or two of the sets. It's basically worth it just to scavenge for the other cards that I need. Legends aside, there are a lot of amazing new cards this time around, not to mention decent reprints and the usual commander staples. And that Mathas Tiny Leaders deck is definitely happening...

Edit: It's great that they're printing the same amazing basic lands as last year again. You just didn't get many of each type because the decks were four-coloured. Can't harm to keep up the supply.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:46 pm 
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Personally, I'm a bit miffed with the oversaturation of Tarkir in the dragon deck. Even if some of the older cards weren't that good, I think I'd still have preferred some weird inclusions that have very little chance to be reprinted otherwise rather than the flood of Tarkir.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:02 am 
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I wanted to come back to the Ur-Dragon for a moment. Here's the character blurb from the website (http://magic.wizards.com/en/products/co ... commanders)

An immensely powerful entity from the dawn of time, the Ur-Dragon is a prevailing force in the Multiverse. Its bellowing roar summons its brood, echoing through the blood of all dragonkind, for the Ur-Dragon is the progenitor from which the dragons of the Multiverse spawned.

Not that it really contradicts anything, but I'm wondering how the Elder Dragons fit into this? I reckon the Ur-Dragon was basically a primal force that then spawned the Elder Dragons? At least that would provide us with a sufficiently epic origin of the Elder Dragons without taking away too much of the mystery. If that's the case, is the part where all dragons, wurms, drakes etc. in the Multiverse are descendants of the Elders still canon (there's no way of knowing that anyway, but still)? Not that that ever made a ton of sense to begin with... And was the part where the Ur-Dragon is a multiverse-wide force always a thing? I was under the impression that it was restricted to Dominaria, but I could easily be wrong there. Heck, I'm probably way overthinking this, but maybe they're trying to establish the Ur-Dragon as a multiversal thing while making it the origin of the Elders so that those could all be from different planes, which would make it easier for them to confirm Ugin as an Elder Dragon without saying all Elder Dragons came from Tarkir...

I think the dragon deck was the biggest flavour win of the four, the Ur-Dragon, Wasitora and Ramos are all flavour homeruns for me. And it's great that they didn't ruin that by reprinting the fake Elder Dragons from Tarkir.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:41 am 
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There was already a weird disconnect between the Elder Dragons like Bolas and the Primevals like Crosis, the latter being the context in which the Ur Dragon was first mentioned.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:31 pm 
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There was already a weird disconnect between the Elder Dragons like Bolas and the Primevals like Crosis, the latter being the context in which the Ur Dragon was first mentioned.
There was, but now that the info on the Ur-Dragon is ever so slightly less fuzzy than before (I guess?), maybe we can reconcile some of it.

For instance, we were told that

1.) All dragons, wurms, drakes and by extension viashino are descendants of the Elder Dragons (admittedly pre-rev and somewhat hard to imagine, but possibly backed up by Bolas's claims to have sired whole races)
2.) "the Ur-Dragon is the progenitor from which the dragons of the Multiverse spawned"

If the Ur-Dragon created/spawned/gave birth to the first Elder Dragons, both claims are true. It's actually the only way to make this work without contradictions. Plus, it would plausibly explain the origin of the Elder Dragons. If the Ur-Dragon spawned Elder Dragons all over the mutliverse simultaneously rather than just on one plane, there would have been a more even distribution from the start, so it would be more believable that the Elders populated most planes in the multiverse with their offspring.

As to the Primevals, maybe the force of the Ur-Dragon just 'stirs' somehow once in a while, resulting in the birth of dragons like the Primevals that have a stronger connection to it. Then there's the Scion of the Ur-Dragon, which... oh, look, a bird!


Speculating a bout lore stuff from the dawn of time is fun, though.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:34 pm 
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I'm fairly irritated that the Ur-dragon is an actual entity in the first pace rather than a myth. It made sense as a myth of primordial creation, so the actual realization of a fabled creature is a bit galling to me.

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To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:43 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
I'm fairly irritated that the Ur-dragon is an actual entity in the first pace rather than a myth. It made sense as a myth of primordial creation, so the actual realization of a fabled creature is a bit galling to me.
I see your point; I agree that some myths should just stay myths.

But it would explain why the Primevals were 'special' and where the first Elder Dragons came from. The existence of the Ur-Dragon fits into the bigger picture at least.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:52 pm 
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First Law of Magic: Everything will eventually be a card.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:34 pm 
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Y'know, I was flipping through stuff at the card shop today and ran across a super obscure character I'd like to see pop up.
Chiss-Goria

The can of worms (or wyrms here) is that by introducing the Ur-dragon, you open yourself up to the conceptual space just because of WHAT an Ur-dragon is. Things like the Ur-elf and etc.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:03 pm 
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Plot twist, it's been sleeping the whole time and comes back when we return to new phyrexia and causes tons of havoc.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:17 am 
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The wizard deck seems like the clear winner in terms of fun and flavourful commanders.

A plethora of Ur-creatures could go a long way to explaining how we see the same few species again and again across separate universes. I don't know that I actually want to see that explored, but it does help smooth over a thorny issue.

Licia is likely from Ixalan. She looks conquistadoresque to me and that would fit in with pseudo S. America world. From the spoiled cards the merfolk seem to have Mayinatec names, the humans, English, and... we don't have a lot to go on for vampires. Time will have to tell.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:28 am 
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TPmanW wrote:
The wizard deck seems like the clear winner in terms of fun and flavourful commanders.

I really dislike most of the wizards (yes, even Mairsil) but Ramos and O-Kagachi have nearly sold me on the dragon deck, even with my complaints about it.

I'd probably be a bit more excited for the vampires, but I'm really sick of seeing the Butcher.

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