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 Post subject: Worldsouls
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:30 pm 
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Some folks love 'em, some folks hate 'em, I am extremely intrigued by them. My movie about the various worldsouls converging on the shores of San Francisco and duking it out Kaiju-style is still pending, so in the meantime, I'll settle for a good ol' fashion discussion post. The question of the day: what would the color identities of the as-of-yet unknown worldsouls be?
Here are the 6 we know about so far:

Ravnica
Innistrad
Shandalar
Zendikar
Theros
New Phyrexia

Here are the ones I'm primarily interested in discussing:

Alara
Amonkhet
Ixalan
Kaladesh
Tarkir (Maro said on blogatog that the soul of Tarkir would be Red and I'm inclined to agree with him)
Vryn
Dominaria
Fiora
Kamigawa

Here are some other planes that are lower priorities for their own various reasons:

Lorwynn & Shadowmoor
Rabiah
Ulgrotha
Serra's Realm
Rath
Mercadia
Regatha

Other discussion points:
-What exactly is the nature and substance of Worldsouls?
-What can they do?
-Are they truly sentient?
-Can they be replicated?
-Which ones are weaker/stronger than the others?
-What if a villain enslaved one? would this even be possible?
-If I somehow trap the soul of Innistrad on Theros, and then I destroy Innistrad, does the soul die?

Hoping to learn a lot! :teach:

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 Post subject: Re: Worldsouls
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:51 pm 
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Canonically, wordsouls are iffy. Ravnica's is supposed to be , yet there we have a one.

For my personal two-cents:

- Alara is most likely , due to being a generic fantasy setting with clear good and evil.

- Amonkhet is most likely , because it is a world of undeath that nonetheless has divine beings representing its morals, two suns and a rigid theocracy.

- Ixalan is probably since it offers a sense of wilderness and adventure. Maybe as well due to the greed in the current conflict.

- Kaladesh was designed as the plane, so...

- Tarkir is probably in some capacity due to dragons and warfare. However, I'd make a strong argument for due to the survival of the fittest and racial supremacy.

- Vryn is , due to its control and technological advance.

- Dominaria is explicitly , and I'd preffer if it remained canon.

- Fiora is probably for the same reasons as Ravnica, albeit less emphasis on progress and more on backstabbing.

- Kamigawa is due to its focus on animism and religion. I made a soul a long time ago, but I regret it.

- Lorwyn is probably , being an idealic sunlit world, while Shadowmoor is since its the opposite of that.

- Rabiah is split, so anything goes.

- Ulgrotha is canonically , though or are valid alternatives.

- Serra's Realm is , obviously.

- Rath is canonically .

- Mercadia is implicitly .

- Regatha has been suggested to be .

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 Post subject: Re: Worldsouls
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:31 pm 
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The worldsoul of Amonkhet was in the stories. Her whole thing was she loved her children so much, she could not bear for them to die, and that is why all dead things return to life on Amonkhet.


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 Post subject: Re: Worldsouls
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:56 pm 
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Yeah, the "soul of" cycle is noncanonical since Shandalar was originally pitched as Tarkir and Ravnica is clearly not Mat'selesnya.

Artificial world also don't have worldsouls outside whatever steps in to function as that. Phyrexia's became Yawgmoth, Serra acted as the soul of her realm, etc.

Interestingly enough, or perhaps not so, there's a LOT of conflicting evidence to Lorwyn's worldsoul. In the Nissa origin, we caught a glimpse, but that conflicts with both Oona and the Source of the Wanderbrine/Mt. Tanufel as the world soul.

Alara's worldsoul is Progenitus. Explicitly.

Dominaria's is Gaea.

Kamigawa's WAS O-kagachi, but his position was usurped by the Sisters of Flesh and Spirit.

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 Post subject: Re: Worldsouls
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:45 pm 
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Right, Progenitus.

I don't think Oona and Tanufel are the world soul per se, maybe aspects of it but they are clearly limited in ways other worldsouls don't seem to be.

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 Post subject: Re: Worldsouls
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:01 pm 
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Right, Progenitus.

I don't think Oona and Tanufel are the world soul per se, maybe aspects of it but they are clearly limited in ways other worldsouls don't seem to be.

Well, Oona effectively wasn't a natural worldsoul, but it's strongly implied she unseated the real worldsoul to take its position.

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 Post subject: Re: Worldsouls
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:10 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
Kamigawa's WAS O-kagachi, but his position was usurped by the Sisters of Flesh and Spirit.

I thought O-Kagachi was the kami of the barrier between the mortal and spirit worlds. Is that the same thing?


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 Post subject: Re: Worldsouls
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:19 pm 
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neru wrote:
Barinellos wrote:
Kamigawa's WAS O-kagachi, but his position was usurped by the Sisters of Flesh and Spirit.

I thought O-Kagachi was the kami of the barrier between the mortal and spirit worlds. Is that the same thing?

O-kogachi was the kami of the very metanature of Kamigawa. When Konda stole That which was taken, he effectively did something against the very nature of the plane and since O-kogachi was the spirit of the nature of the world, it was very much like he'd been personally wounded by the act.

As to the other, more general questions, the level of sapience expressed by each worldsoul is very much a case by case basis. Innistrad, for example, if we're to believe Nissa is unwelcoming, dark, and primal.

I just realized I forgot Ashaya was Zendikar's worldsoul. I miss that ignorance.... gods and devils, I despise Nissa...

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Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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 Post subject: Re: Worldsouls
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:18 pm 
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Were worldsouls a holdover from Brady's run as head of creative? Seems like they could've been building to something big with them, but decided to ditch the idea somewhere along the way.

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 Post subject: Re: Worldsouls
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:30 pm 
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Were worldsouls a holdover from Brady's run as head of creative? Seems like they could've been building to something big with them, but decided to ditch the idea somewhere along the way.

They predate Brady by a sizable margin.
The origin of the worldsouls was Gaea, after all. For my money, I'd like to see more instances of maro-sorcerers, which were like mini-worldsouls for locations.

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Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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 Post subject: Re: Worldsouls
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:25 am 
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^ I knew Gaea had been around for a while. Seems like it was in the brady era that they started to come more into focus. More maros would be cool too.

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 Post subject: Re: Worldsouls
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:46 am 
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^ I knew Gaea had been around for a while. Seems like it was in the brady era that they started to come more into focus. More maros would be cool too.

In fairness, that's mostly because we didn't really jump around much before that.
Otherwise, I'd say the creation of the kavu was the most overt and impressive instance of the worldsoul acting.

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Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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