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 Post subject: Super Planar Mario
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:52 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
I don't normally want to ymtc. Nothing wrong with it, it can certainly be fun, but usually I just use my creative juices differently.

That said, I very much want to design a Super Mario set.

Okay, let's do it.

Now, personally, I'm in favor of doing a full MTG/M:EM reskin of the franchise, sort of a "How would the world of Super Mario look if it were a plane of the multiverse," of course complete with cards, since that seems to be Barinellos's primary desire.

I do want Mario represented by a vegetarian planeswalking pyromancer, though...

:D

Anyway... anyone in?


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 Post subject: Re: Super Planar Mario
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:37 pm 
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One of the big things in Mario is power-ups: the mushrooms, fire-flowers, and too many suits to name all come to mind. They work in a consistent way: they grant their power until you take what would be, unpowered, lethal damage, at which point the power-up goes away instead.

I think, mechanically, Totem Armor is a near perfect representation of a standard Mario power-up.

As far as concepts and conceits, I note that Mario games have multiple "lands" often described as "Worlds". In Odyssey, they're regions on a single planet, but in other games the connection is more ambiguous: In NSMBU the standard worlds exist on the same map, but the paths are a little abstract. In NSMB Wii or Mario 3, the overworld is largely disconnected, and NSMB Wii's secret, inaccessible Star World is another oddity.

I think the standard "Worlds" of Mario would be represented as a plane cluster like The Wheel or the fractured version of Alara, which are close enough to one another to allow connections for non-planeswalkers to at least sometimes and with the right magic/artifacts (Power Stars?) travel between them. So Bowser is able to unleash his koopa armies when 'the stars are right' so to speak -- which seems to be fairly often. At other times, only important folk (planeswalkers or in possession of permanent stable access) are able to move across the Worlds, resultig in the more genial ends of the weird friendly rivalry of the Mushroom and Koopa Kingdoms? Or we could play it more serious and omit the karting and golf outings.

Bowser himself is interesting. While usually depicted as relying on Kamek and the other Magikoopas for arcane support, he's also been seen as powerfully magical himself, at least with the right setup. According to some lore versions, he's responsible for corrupting toads into goombas or turning the citizens of the mushroom kingdom into the blocks that give you coins rather than breaking. Ignoring the disservice of the recent origin stories, maybe Bowser is or is the descendent of a debased Elder Dragon. Certainly, he has a LOT of draconic traits, and most of the Koopa race seems to be lesser offshoots yet from Bowser (Bowser Junior and the Koopalings are close, Hammer Bros and their variants like fire bros a little farther off model, and finally the generic modern 'koopa' is almost wholly turtle, with no real draconic heritage). We know most of the Elders were stripped of their limbs and cast down as the first Wurms; perhaps Bowser escaped this fate only partially, losing his wings and draconic grandeur but retaining four limbs and a keen intellect. He's a brutish tyrant, as we were to believe many of the Elders were, but he's also a comparative coward; if he fled the war early at the cost of his wings and true status, perhaps he could have escaped worse? Or perhaps he betrayed the losing side, and being turtled rather than wurmed was his 'reward' (over which the true elders no doubt had a good laugh) I suspect, with a serious read, that defeat would be gnawing at him, hence why so many of his minions sport ineffectual flight magic (Koopa Paratroopas) and vestigial arcane power-up wings: Bowser would want to reclaim his birthright, but just can't manage.

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 Post subject: Re: Super Planar Mario
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:15 pm 
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Yoshi, The Mighty Tongue -
Legendary Creature - Dinosaur
, : Exile target creature. As long as that creature is exiled, ~ does not untap during your untap step.
, : Return the exiled creature to the battlefield under its owner's control. It deals damage equal to its toughness to target creature or player.
3/3


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 Post subject: Re: Super Planar Mario
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:59 am 
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Wouldn't a planar Mario be even thinner than a paper Mario? :D
Totem Armor seems like the right idea.
Most of the Marioverse splits into 2 factions- Bowser's minions vs Mushroom Kingdom. I don't know if we'd want to go all in on factions, but maybe we could divvy up colors/mechanics between them?.
Human, fungus and turtle seem like the tribal foci.
Most Mario enemies are 1 hit wonders. Maybe represent them as tokens?
Koopas getting knocked into their shells after one hit could be represented somehow. Maybe they transform into their shell form (double face card or token that exiles the original creature*) and can be returned to fighting shape with a mana payment.
How to represent coins? Treasure tokens or some kind of coin counter, like poison and energy?

*If any shell token could bring back any Koopa from the graveyard then the same koopas would show up over and over. I guess it could work if there were only a few cards with the mechanic.

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 Post subject: Re: Super Planar Mario
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:16 am 
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So, Totem Armor is exactly the place I landed on for translating the power ups.

Secondly, if we're describing semi-planar travel, then the two primaries to consider are in the form of Warp Pipes, as well as Airships. Hell, even the Warp Whistle is a considerable option as well.

Beyond that, I don't think Elder Dragon works for him, as in the case of Yoshi's Island, we can determine that he isn't the Eldest of his kind. He is, however, quite certainly empowered by prophecy, as all the Star Children are.
But besides that, I shan't have you besmirch Bowser's better qualities. Often, when his personality is allowed to show, we see he isn't a despot. He doesn't rule through fear, but that his troops have a genuine loyalty to him to the point they'd willingly march to their death! Further, he's shown to be a father to his men, more concerned with their loyalty and wellbeing than their success. He's also an excellent father to his child as well.

As to the overall breakdown of factions, we certainly have the Koopa and Mushroom Kingdoms, but there are also the likes of the Bob-ombs and Boos demonstrating a sovereignty in the forms of their own monarchies.

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 Post subject: Re: Super Planar Mario
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:55 am 
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I should admit at this point that the newest Mario game I own is Super Mario World on SNES...

(Well, Mario Kart on SNES, technically)

And the newest Mario game I've played is Super Paper Mario, so...

My contributions will likely be based on the earliest games, and I'm perfectly alright with that.

@Totem Armor: I definitely agree that this is, mechanically, a perfect fit for Mario power-ups. I say we run with it. It terms of picking up a physical thing to get the power-up, flavorfully, I think we can play around with the term "totemic" here. Maybe there is nothing inherently magical about the mushrooms and flowers themselves, but rather the ritualistic act of eating particular flora activates global enchantments that everyone (or maybe just the specially initiated) can access. Of course, it seems to be only Mario and his friends who are affected, so maybe it's the opposite.

@Warping: I would love to do something with Pipe Warps and Star Warps and Warp Whistles and so forth. That's fairly easy to do in world building, but how can we represent it in the cards? Maybe some kind of Warp counter that you can put on your lands for added effects? Something like (but more well designed than):

Warp Pipe -
Artifact
Lands you control with warp counters on them have "Whenever this land becomes tapped, add to your mana pool for each other land you control with a warp counter on it."
: Put a warp counter on target land you control without a warp counter.

@Bowser: I don't know if we need to go too far into the Koopa King's backstory. I'm fine with his creature type just being "Legendary Creature - Turtle Dragon" :paranoid:

I've always sort of headcanoned Bowser and his constant wars against the Mushroom Kingdom as a reaction against years of oppression and crippling economic sanctions imposed by the Toadstool regime. Bowser's kingdom is clearly disadvantaged in terms of terrain, forced to live in mountainous and volcanic territory while the vast, food-producing meadows and fields are held tightly in the grasp of the oppressive, conformity-obsessed Mushroomians.

...I might read too much into Mario...

:D


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 Post subject: Re: Super Planar Mario
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:25 pm 
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@ Mario Background:

My experience in Mario is almost entirely restricted to the 2d platformers: I played the heck out of Super Mario Bros and Super Mario Bros 3 as a kid (less of 2, but I had it. I doubt we want to consider Doki Doki Mario Bros though), and much more recently NSMB Wii and U with a little toe dipped into Mario Maker. I didn't ever have a SNES and I never played the 3d Mario games like 64 or Galaxy. Heck, my knowledge of Odyssey is limited to having watched a speedrun once. So, that's the perspective I'm coming from.


@Mechanical Warping.

I think we need to go big with this. I think we need a Warp Zone.

My pitch: The Warp Zone is a Zone that functions like the battlefield (permanents and tokens can exist there) but isn't subject to any effect that doesn't explicitly effect the Warp Zone. Essentially, objects in the Warp Zone are similar to objects indefinitely phased-out. Various cards would interact with Warp Zone by creating assets there, or moving or exchanging objects in the Warp Zone and Battlefield.

Warp Pipe
Land - Pipe
When Warp Pipe enters the battlefield, if it isn't a token, create a token that's a copy of it in the Warp Zone
:t:: Add :c:

Going Down
:u:
Instant
Put target creature you control into the Warp Zone

While the Warp Zone can be stocked various ways, the main means of doing so is through the Warp X mechanic. To Warp X, reveal the top X cards of your library. Put all permanent cards revealed this way into the Warp Zone and exile the rest.

Star Ride
:1::w:
Instant
Target creature gains Indestructible until end of turn.
Warp 1

Pipe Maze
:2::r::b:
Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, Warp 1
:r::b:: Warp 1, then choose a creature in your Warp Zone. Put it onto the battlefield. That creature gains haste. Sacrifice the creature at the beginning of the next end step.

Mario Party
:x::g:
Sorcery
Warp X

While there are exceptions, the primary means of accessing the resources built up in Warp Zone is through a variety of cards that perform exchanges. These are all colorless artifacts, to allow all decks to play with the Warp Zone.

Warp Star
:1:
Artifact
:1:, :t:, Sacrifice Warp Star: Choose a permanent you control and exchange it with a permanent you own in the Warp Zone that shares a type with it.

Warp Whistle
:2:
Artifact
:2:, :t:, Sacrifice Warp Whistle: Choose a permanent type. Exchange all permanents you control of the chosen type with all permanents you own of the chosen type in the Warp Zone

World Warper
:4:
Artifact
:4:, :t:, Sacrifice World Warper: Exchange your Warp Zone and Battlefield.

Other cards may selectively retrieve objects from the Warp Zone, though most cards that do will also Warp, both to ensure you have something there and to make sure a player doesn't just use the Warp Zone as an easily controlled free-cast. Going to the Warp Zone should leave you in a better place, and it does bypass some game play, but there should always be something left after.


~~~


As an aside, given "Worlds" in Mario and their often consistent themes, do we want to bring back World Enchantments to represent what World the game is currently on?

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I have a blog. I review anime, and sometimes related media, with an analytical focus.

I'm a (self) published author now! You can find my first book, The Accursed, on Amazon as an ebook or a paperback!


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 Post subject: Re: Super Planar Mario
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:50 pm 
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to capture the feeling of all the various rooms that can be at the bottoms of pipes, we could borrow a trick YMtC folk keep trying to make work: multi-variant flip cards.

Pipe
Land
: Add .
: Transform Pipe.
-------
Coin Room
Land
: Add one mana of any color. When you spend it, gain 1 life.

Pipe
Land
: Add to your mana pool.
: Transform Pipe.
-------
Monster Room
Land
When you transform Monster Room, create a 2/2 colorless Goomba creature token.
: Add .

Pipe
Land
: Add .
: Transform Pipe.
-------
Power-Up Room
Land
When you transform Power-Up Room, sacrifice it. If you do, search your library for an aura card with converted mana cost 4 or less, reveal it, and put it onto the battlefield attached to a creature you control, then shuffle your library.

Pipe
Land
: Add .
: Transform Pipe.
-------
Empty Room
Land
: Add .

the rule would be you can only run 4 Pipes, but they can be in any combination and your opponent doesn't get to know which one it is until you flip it.

:duel:

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 Post subject: Re: Super Planar Mario
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:04 pm 
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(less of 2, but I had it. I doubt we want to consider Doki Doki Mario Bros though),

Au contraire mon frère! I refuse to live in a (Mario) world without Shy Guys! Also, Wart is a great villain that they should do more with. Ironically, I think the enemies from that game would fit perfectly into this concept of the Warp Zone you have thought up. What if we did something akin to the Shadow ability, tied in with the dream/warped nature of Mario 2 enemies, that allowed them to only attack other players from the Warp Zone?

Shy Guy Trickster -
Creature - Wizard
When ~ enters the battlefield, you may exchange it with a creature you own in the Warp Zone. If you do, both gain haste until end of turn.
Warpborn (This creature may only attack or block from the Warp Zone)
2/2

Also, my headcanon is that the Toad in Super Mario Brothers 2 is a specific Toad hero who is now largely embittered that he's been forgotten by history. I kind of want to make that character...

As an aside, given "Worlds" in Mario and their often consistent themes, do we want to bring back World Enchantments to represent what World the game is currently on?

We might already be doing too much with enchantments if we're going to focus on totem armors, but for the record, I do love World Enchantments, so if have room for them, I'd be game.


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 Post subject: Re: Super Planar Mario
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:18 pm 
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(less of 2, but I had it. I doubt we want to consider Doki Doki Mario Bros though),

Au contraire mon frère! I refuse to live in a (Mario) world without Shy Guys!

You and I will be great friends!

Quote:
Also, my headcanon is that the Toad in Super Mario Brothers 2 is a specific Toad hero who is now largely embittered that he's been forgotten by history. I kind of want to make that character...

Which kinda brings up the issue of how we're going to establish degrees of variety among the mushroom kingdom. They don't have an especially diverse talent pool.

Quote:
We might already be doing too much with enchantments if we're going to focus on totem armors, but for the record, I do love World Enchantments, so if have room for them, I'd be game.

I think focusing enchantments into a draft archetype would be wisest.


-------------------
Also, Power Star should be an instant that grants indestructible and deathtouch until eot
And our wrath of the set should be the POW Block.

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At twilight's end, the shadow's crossed / a new world birthed, the elder lost.
Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


Last edited by Barinellos on Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Super Planar Mario
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:37 pm 
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@ Razor

I feel like Pipe (the front side) needs "A deck may have any number..." to really play with expectations. The thing is, I think if the back sides don't have that clause, you would be limited to four of any particular pipe but not four total pipes?


@ Raven
I like the trickster a lot!


@Barinellos
Variety in the mushroom kingdom is a question -- there aren't a whole ton of Kingdom-aligned figures that do things. There's Toad and Toadette (hero/player version), the Toads that run gift-giving toad houses, the toads that run minigames, Captain Toad the treasure hunter, the Toads that say your princess is in another castle, Toadsworth the butler... Okay, I've listed off a few of our fungal friends that I could remember one way or another, but it's not a lot for nonlegendary creatures.

But now many Mushroom Kingdom Citizen Nonlegendary Creatures do we need? The flora and/or fauna of the Mushroom Kingdom is vast and diverse, giving lots of creature options that aren't proper mushroom kingdom, but wouldn't get a Koopa Troop watermark either. There are a bunch of varieties of Cheep-Cheep, bloopers, wigglers, piranha plants, and other assorted environmental enemies that I can't remember the proper name of that would seem to provide a lot of nonlegendary creature options to fill out a set. Of course, players would want to build a Mushroom Kingdom deck, possibly with a tribal subtheme, but for 60-card formats that won't be hard, there only need to be a few good Toads to fill out the set, and since they'll probably have the Fungus type they have a lot of tribal friends out of 'block'. Players who want to play EDH are another matter, but as long as Princess Peach Toadstool doesn't parasitically require cards there aren't a lot of, players will be able to fill out their 99 with things that do work.

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 Post subject: Re: Super Planar Mario
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:19 am 
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Okay, so as it happens, I have a Mario Encyclopedia outlining the 30 years of the game.
So, I'm going to start throwing together a design document to keep up.
It'll take me a bit, but in the meantime, I thought of another piece of design tech that we can add

brick counters

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Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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 Post subject: Re: Super Planar Mario
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:04 pm 
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I think that ghosts (boos) are fairly clearly our tribe (although I think we could argue Goombas there, as well). The defining characteristics of boos is that they only advance, or "attack," when Mario is looking away from them. What do people think would be a good way to duplicate that mechanically?

Swooping Boo -
Creature - Ghost
Flying
Stalk (This creature can only attack if defending player controls a tapped creature)
2/1


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 Post subject: Re: Super Planar Mario
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:23 pm 
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I think that ghosts (boos) are fairly clearly our tribe (although I think we could argue Goombas there, as well). The defining characteristics of boos is that they only advance, or "attack," when Mario is looking away from them. What do people think would be a good way to duplicate that mechanically?

Swooping Boo -
Creature - Ghost
Flying
Stalk (This creature can only attack if defending player controls a tapped creature)
2/1

I like Goombas as the goblins of our work, so that'd put them in red. Any objections?
Black should also have a strong skeleton subtheme to the point that I think Boos would be better as our blue choice as the sneaky unblockable.

Though I like the idea of just adding in a clause that creatures with vigilance can block them.

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Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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 Post subject: Re: Super Planar Mario
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:46 pm 
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Maybe "Can't be blocked except by creatures with Vigilance or Defender."? True, Boos pass through walls, but a lot of defenders aren't walls and those with eyes ARE looking.

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I'm a (self) published author now! You can find my first book, The Accursed, on Amazon as an ebook or a paperback!


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 Post subject: Re: Super Planar Mario
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:43 pm 
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Maybe "Can't be blocked except by creatures with Vigilance or Defender."? True, Boos pass through walls, but a lot of defenders aren't walls and those with eyes ARE looking.

well, they'll largely have flying too
I think the ones that can be blocked by defender are probably the kind that pop out of the floor.
Though there are also the kinds that turn into blocks when you aren't looking.

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 Post subject: Re: Super Planar Mario
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:05 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
I think that ghosts (boos) are fairly clearly our tribe (although I think we could argue Goombas there, as well). The defining characteristics of boos is that they only advance, or "attack," when Mario is looking away from them. What do people think would be a good way to duplicate that mechanically?

Swooping Boo -
Creature - Ghost
Flying
Stalk (This creature can only attack if defending player controls a tapped creature)
2/1

I like Goombas as the goblins of our work, so that'd put them in red. Any objections?
Black should also have a strong skeleton subtheme to the point that I think Boos would be better as our blue choice as the sneaky unblockable.

I mean, Ninji...

:D

But I did forget about Dry Bones. Maybe some sort of auto-regen? Or some crazy transform card like this...

Pacing Dry Bones -
Creature - Skeleton
~ attacks each turn if able.
If ~ would receive combat damage, instead prevent that damage, remove ~ from combat, and transform it.
3/1

-------------------------

Pile of Bones
Creature - Skeleton
Defender
Prevent all damage that would be dealt by ~.
At the beginning of your upkeep, you may pay . If you do, transform ~.
0/1


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 Post subject: Re: Super Planar Mario
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:29 pm 
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Seems more complicated than it has to be.
Something in the model of reassembling skeletons would probably be simpler.

Though I think I'd like something with a timing trigger instead, like myr servitor. Being able to pay to have it come back doesn't feel as faithful as just letting time elapse and making it automatic.

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Yet on the morn we wake to find / that mem'ry left so far behind.
To deafened ears we ask, unseen / "Which is life and which the dream?"


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 Post subject: Re: Super Planar Mario
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:30 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
Seems more complicated than it has to be.
Something in the model of reassembling skeletons would probably be simpler.

Though I think I'd like something with a timing trigger instead, like myr servitor. Being able to pay to have it come back doesn't feel as faithful as just letting time elapse and making it automatic.

To be honest, time counters were my first idea too. But hey, I'm REALLY out of practice designing cards...


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 Post subject: Re: Super Planar Mario
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:51 pm 
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Dry Bones
:1::b:
Creature - Turtle Skeleton
When Dry Bones dies, its owner may pay :b:. If they do, they return Dry Bones from their graveyard to the battlefield at the beginning of their next upkeep.
1/2

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I'm a (self) published author now! You can find my first book, The Accursed, on Amazon as an ebook or a paperback!


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