It is currently Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:35 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 180 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: M:EM High School
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:35 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 9677
@Huey: Ha! Antine looks amazing, pretty much exactly what I was imagining. Very nice. Thank you!

Next we need to figure out how to get a bikini on a unicorn...

:D

Also, I love the nickname "Tack" for Orida. "Short and metal." Awesome.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: M:EM High School
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:51 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 19, 2015
Posts: 1500
Location: Homestuck rehab center
Identity: Inertially male
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him
Next we need to figure out how to get a bikini on a unicorn...

I had the same dilemma about centaurs, actually, since I'm eventually drawing Sharaka hitting on Scar :D Their casual attire would be a conundrum on its own.

_________________
Johann the Bard (The Adventure Zone) wrote:

To anybody reading this, including my future selves: have a good life!

My creative archive


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: M:EM High School
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:55 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 19, 2015
Posts: 1500
Location: Homestuck rehab center
Identity: Inertially male
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him
now I really want an M:EM High School comic strip (although, knowing the work that would go into it, I would never actually ask for it)

I though about this a bit. It's not a matter of work, it's a matter of drawing the same characters repeatedly, which can become uninteresting if the character doesn't appeal too much to me, either for visual or characterizing reasons.

I'm open to suggestions for single drawings, like Antine in '20s swimwear, and for small strips featuring the following characters. It doesn't mean I don't want to draw other characters, but the inclusion of these characters increase the chance of having a swift/positive response.

Visually established characters
Beryl
Elphimas
Orida
Sharaka
Tryst

Character that I'd need to make a quick concept first
Alessa
Jade
Lumina
Maral

Characters that I need to envision properly first
(feel free to hit me up with ideas for their appearance)
Aloise
Daneera
Fisco
Huinn
Kimberley
Lia Xin
Mari
Nasina
Nasperge
Penelophine
Raiker
Raleris
Scar
Tey'von
Zhiran

(The lists may change with time)

_________________
Johann the Bard (The Adventure Zone) wrote:

To anybody reading this, including my future selves: have a good life!

My creative archive


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: M:EM High School
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:41 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 9677
A Little Crush


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: M:EM High School
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:53 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 19, 2015
Posts: 1500
Location: Homestuck rehab center
Identity: Inertially male
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him

"Tack has guts," Sharaka commented approvingly as she watched the kithkin ran toward the entrance, Pendulum in tow.


"And Morphy has tongue," Tryst chuckled. "Come on, "I wanna see what you can do with that tongue?" Next Crafts class will be so fun."


"Planning some more Tryst's Sex Ed?" Sharaka snorted. "Wasn't the last sex toys rant enough?"


"I needed to make sure she wouldn't use her bat inappropriately - at least as a first - and supplied a brief list of items more suited to the job," Tryst replied haughtily. "Completely unrelated: have you ever considered tongue implants?"


Sharaka flipped Tryst off and showed her foot-long one. "Hope Tack likes to share, because see if you get mine in your vicinity in the near future."


"Noooo," Tryst wailed theatrically, falling on her knees. "Don't do this to me, Shaka! Don't leave me in a sad tongue-less life!" The devilkin hugged Sharaka's leg desperately. "I was joking, just joking! I'll make it up to you, I swear!"


"You better." Sharaka set off, dragging a bawling Tryst and grumbling about ungrateful devilkin.



* * *

(I always imagined Sharaka had a long tongue for blepping reasons - proof - and, well, I think I just "canonized" Devilscale, or at least the occasional fooling around of the pair. Also, the two surely use "Shifty" - or Shiftry when Sharaka is on a Pokemon kick - as a nickname for the Shifter; obvious, but very appropriate)

Aw, young Pendulum is so cute! And Orida is always rad af, the "Urza tap-dancing Planeswalker" and the "posing in the art wing" line are awesome, and I guess you'll agree that coming up with MtG-themed metal names is fun :V It's a pretty simple and trope-y story, but the way the characters fit within (like Pendulum able to physically change "on spec") makes it delightfully over the top, which could admittedly be the description of this whole thread :D

Also, who handles the Sex Ed around here? Kirsch? Kala?

Thanks for sharing!

_________________
Johann the Bard (The Adventure Zone) wrote:

To anybody reading this, including my future selves: have a good life!

My creative archive


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: M:EM High School
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:42 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 9677

"Tack has guts," Sharaka commented approvingly as she watched the kithkin ran toward the entrance, Pendulum in tow.


"And Morphy has tongue," Tryst chuckled. "Come on, "I wanna see what you can do with that tongue?" Next Crafts class will be so fun."


"Planning some more Tryst's Sex Ed?" Sharaka snorted. "Wasn't the last sex toys rant enough?"


"I needed to make sure she wouldn't use her bat inappropriately - at least as a first - and supplied a brief list of items more suited to the job," Tryst replied haughtily. "Completely unrelated: have you ever considered tongue implants?"


Sharaka flipped Tryst off and showed her foot-long one. "Hope Tack likes to share, because see if you get mine in your vicinity in the near future."


"Noooo," Tryst wailed theatrically, falling on her knees. "Don't do this to me, Shaka! Don't leave me in a sad tongue-less life!" The devilkin hugged Sharaka's leg desperately. "I was joking, just joking! I'll make it up to you, I swear!"


"You better." Sharaka set off, dragging a bawling Tryst and grumbling about ungrateful devilkin.


Even though it makes no sense to do so, I can't help but imagine this little scene taking place on a nearby hill overlooking this interior school hallway, which amuses me to no end.

Aw, young Pendulum is so cute!

I had a lot of fun envisioning Pendulum as that hopeful but awkward lovestruck teenager. And seeing as how we haven't seen Pendulum show up before this, I thought it was a good place to debut him.

And Orida is always rad af, the "Urza tap-dancing Planeswalker" and the "posing in the art wing" line are awesome, and I guess you'll agree that coming up with MtG-themed metal names is fun :V

Orida was also ridiculously fun to write, as she pretty much always is. The "posing" line is far and away my favorite thing in this story; I was very proud of that one. And yes, MTG-Metal names are extremely fun. I really liked Compleat Disaster. I can just feel Pendulum deflate as Orida expresses her displeasure in their work, after all that effort he had spent to learn about them.

It's a pretty simple and trope-y story, but the way the characters fit within (like Pendulum able to physically change "on spec") makes it delightfully over the top, which could admittedly be the description of this whole thread :D

Absolutely. Pendulum's ability to change himself, in this story literally overnight, just fit so well with that High School mentality of trying to fit in or, in this case, change for the person you like. This story is sort of like the M:EM High's version of Grease, just with fewer catchy songs and more bat beatings...

:D

Also, who handles the Sex Ed around here? Kirsch? Kala?

Kirsh is the health teacher, so I would guess it would be him. Although it might be fun to imagine how much that class would change if different faculty were to teach it...

Thanks for sharing!

And thank you for reading!


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: M:EM High School
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:16 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 9677
This one is a bit different of a tone for my HS pieces. I hope people enjoy!

Spoiler


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: M:EM High School
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:58 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 19, 2015
Posts: 1500
Location: Homestuck rehab center
Identity: Inertially male
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him
For starters, I like the core of the scene a lot. It's like a dark reflection of Gifts, which in itself is not a cheerful piece; instead of visions of reaching out, Alessa seeks visions in which she lashes out and drives everyone away from her. She's in a lot of pain, feeling like she cannot relate to anybody... I'm also intrigued by the relationship between her and Nasperge, which makes sense given all the similarities, and saddened by the damage Nasperge's habits can do to someone that depended on him, which is a sobering take of a thing we are used to see as romantic here. As for her canon counterpart, I hope she manages to invert this spiral soon.

That said, there are a few things that I'm not ok with.
-Starting from the smallest thing: what's the rock Alessa's talking about at the beginning?
-As much as there can be the doubt that Alessa has not really spoken with Nasina but only went through the most uncharitable of her possible meetings, the outline of her intervention drives me crazy. (bad therapy/counseling might be a new berserk button for me) I don't know how school counselors are supposed to be trained, but who the hell can think that trivializing someone's pain will do anything but alienate them? "Just a phase" is such a stupid phrase in relation to anything, and I'm pretty sure that "teen angst" is in the top 10 expressions NOT to use with... well, angsty teens? Especially if they're genuinely hurting, which leads me to the next point.
-Why nobody gave Alessa something to manage her powers? In her canon backstory she was kept like an asset, with no one sympathetic in sight. In our HS there's meddling bastards, sure, but there's at least as many good individuals with the means to help, be it a potion, a suppressing artifact, a magical binding... If Nasperge knows about her powers as well as the piece implies, he'd be a very different character than the one I suppose he is if he didn't look for a solution and explained the issue to a few key people. (like, neurodivergent people could at least relate to Alessa's suffering, by type if not maybe by magnitude, and Elphimas has experience with magical sensory overload) And if someone is supposed to want Alessa in that state for some goal, there is little to no clue as to who and why that is.

While I got pretty heated up there, I'm not angry with you, Raven, and I thank for sharing this, though I think some points might have been explained better. It's just that I feel for Alessa here, and the unfairness of it upsets me.

_________________
Johann the Bard (The Adventure Zone) wrote:

To anybody reading this, including my future selves: have a good life!

My creative archive


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: M:EM High School
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:27 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 9677
@Huey: Thanks for reading! Sorry if I triggered you; I certainly hadn't intended to.

I'll preface this by saying that I really don't "get" Alessa, at least canon Alessa. I've tried on, I think, two separate occasions to collab something with Barinellos about her, and the batting around of ideas that happens reveals that I really don't understand her on a fundamental level. I don't get how her abilities work, partly (because time shenanigans are always a headache anyway), but more than that, I don't get her psychologically. Part of what I was hoping to do in this piece is get a sense for how the HS Alessa might work. Barinellos will likely drop in here at some point and tell me how far off the mark I am (which is both fine and encouraged, of course), but this was essentially me trying to put myself in HS Alessa's shoes.

For starters, I like the core of the scene a lot. It's like a dark reflection of Gifts, which in itself is not a cheerful piece; instead of visions of reaching out, Alessa seeks visions in which she lashes out and drives everyone away from her. She's in a lot of pain, feeling like she cannot relate to anybody...

"Gifts" was definitely on my mind when I wrote this, although I intentionally didn't go back to reread it because I didn't want to take too much of it other than the connotations Alessa conjures up for me.

I'm also intrigued by the relationship between her and Nasperge, which makes sense given all the similarities, and saddened by the damage Nasperge's habits can do to someone that depended on him, which is a sobering take of a thing we are used to see as romantic here.

I really wanted Alessa to have someone on the faculty that could serve this purpose, similar to what Fisco and Jackie have, but of course different because of their unique personalities. Nasperge seemed like the perfect fit, and as you point out, I really like this look at Nas from the other side. Moira, of course, was perfectly alright with that personality trait. She had her own life and her own things going on. But what if there was someone who could have really needed him?

That said, there are a few things that I'm not ok with.
-Starting from the smallest thing: what's the rock Alessa's talking about at the beginning?

Yeah, I could easily cut that, and probably would if this were going up for vote or something. Ultimately, this line was meant to do two things. Firstly, it was intended to reference the Oblivion Stone Alessa pulls out at the climax of "The Fire." But in the HS world, this was meant to imply that maybe Alessa is turning to drugs as a coping mechanism, as "rock" is a slang term for crack. I didn't want it to be blatant (for a lot of reasons, not least of which is that she's not my character) but in a magical setting, she could just have an enchanted rock that she shouldn't have.

Like I said, if it stands out too much, I can always just remove it.

-As much as there can be the doubt that Alessa has not really spoken with Nasina but only went through the most uncharitable of her possible meetings, the outline of her intervention drives me crazy. (bad therapy/counseling might be a new berserk button for me) I don't know how school counselors are supposed to be trained, but who the hell can think that trivializing someone's pain will do anything but alienate them? "Just a phase" is such a stupid phrase in relation to anything, and I'm pretty sure that "teen angst" is in the top 10 expressions NOT to use with... well, angsty teens? Especially if they're genuinely hurting, which leads me to the next point.

This entire piece, while technically in third person, is written from a POV very close to Alessa. The narrator tends to internalize many of Alessa's thoughts and feelings. If I had to guess, I would say that Alessa's conversation with Nasina, if it happened at all, probably went very differently. This is Rehn's take on the conversation, which is part of why I didn't show the conversation itself (again, if it ever happened). As you say, though, I could have explained that better.

-Why nobody gave Alessa something to manage her powers? In her canon backstory she was kept like an asset, with no one sympathetic in sight. In our HS there's meddling bastards, sure, but there's at least as many good individuals with the means to help, be it a potion, a suppressing artifact, a magical binding... If Nasperge knows about her powers as well as the piece implies, he'd be a very different character than the one I suppose he is if he didn't look for a solution and explained the issue to a few key people. (like, neurodivergent people could at least relate to Alessa's suffering, by type if not maybe by magnitude, and Elphimas has experience with magical sensory overload) And if someone is supposed to want Alessa in that state for some goal, there is little to no clue as to who and why that is.

Again, to me, this goes back to exactly what Alessa says, that nobody truly does understand, because Alessa's powers are so unique. And like you said, Nasperge here comes across as a much different sort of character than we are used to seeing him, and I think that's very telling. He's not joking around, or wistful, or even particularly mysterious. This reads to me as a Nasperge who has been reaching out, to no effect, for a long time. He's at the end of his rope, I think. The fact that he has this conversation, knowing that it won't actually happen, is to me very significant. Alessa is avoiding him at least as much - probably a lot more - as he's avoid her. But what is also really telling, to me, is that Nasperge still does it. He fully plans to sit alone in a theatre all day long, knowing Alessa won't be there, but prepared for the discussion she's likely to scry. And that, to me, is very Nasperge. He cares about Alessa, but he just can't break through the walls she's put up.

As for why nobody has tried to control or suppress her powers, they probably don't have a sense of what it's like for her. Nas comes closest, but Nas's big push in canon, and likely translated to the HS AU, is that he wants people to find that strength within themselves. And while I consider Nasperge a pretty insightful person, he definitely has his blind spots. If you're up for writing it, Huey, I'd be very interested in a similar scene between Alessa and Elphimas, since you brought them up. The connection between Elphimas's reality rewrites and Alessa's chaos storms would be very interesting to explore.

While I got pretty heated up there, I'm not angry with you, Raven, and I thank for sharing this, though I think some points might have been explained better. It's just that I feel for Alessa here, and the unfairness of it upsets me.

Completely understandable. I knew the piece was going to be heavier than most of my HS pieces, but I didn't expect it to trigger so many negative feelings, so again, sorry about that. As you say, I probably could have smoothed some of that out, especially the explanations (or lack thereof). Regardless, I am glad that you got at least something out of it.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: M:EM High School
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:07 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 19, 2015
Posts: 1500
Location: Homestuck rehab center
Identity: Inertially male
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him
Sorry if I triggered you

*shrug* don't be, it's just a topic I get passionate about and I read your piece at work the first time, so I wasn't in the most relaxed context to begin with.

Quote:
I don't get how her abilities work, partly (because time shenanigans are always a headache anyway)

As a Homestuck, I have a love-hate relationship with time shenanigans so I get what you're saying :D

Ultimately, this line was meant to do two things. Firstly, it was intended to reference the Oblivion Stone Alessa pulls out at the climax of "The Fire." But in the HS world, this was meant to imply that maybe Alessa is turning to drugs as a coping mechanism, as "rock" is a slang term for crack. I didn't want it to be blatant (for a lot of reasons, not least of which is that she's not my character) but in a magical setting, she could just have an enchanted rock that she shouldn't have.

Ah, I forgot about the Oblivion Stone and I'm not sure I ever heard about the crack slang. If native English speakers get the reference, I don't really mind the ambiguity.

This entire piece, while technically in third person, is written from a POV very close to Alessa. The narrator tends to internalize many of Alessa's thoughts and feelings. If I had to guess, I would say that Alessa's conversation with Nasina, if it happened at all, probably went very differently. This is Rehn's take on the conversation, which is part of why I didn't show the conversation itself (again, if it ever happened). As you say, though, I could have explained that better.

Yeah, maybe some turn of phrases along the lines of "condescending psychobabble for "teen angst" " would add Alessa's frustration at Nasina's wordiness/supposed PC-ness while still hinting at the fact that she might be misconstruing Nasina's words.

And like you said, Nasperge here comes across as a much different sort of character than we are used to seeing him, and I think that's very telling. He's not joking around, or wistful, or even particularly mysterious. This reads to me as a Nasperge who has been reaching out, to no effect, for a long time. He's at the end of his rope, I think. The fact that he has this conversation, knowing that it won't actually happen, is to me very significant. Alessa is avoiding him at least as much - probably a lot more - as he's avoid her. But what is also really telling, to me, is that Nasperge still does it. He fully plans to sit alone in a theatre all day long, knowing Alessa won't be there, but prepared for the discussion she's likely to scry. And that, to me, is very Nasperge. He cares about Alessa, but he just can't break through the walls she's put up.

Fair. I didn't filter some of Nasperge's shows of emotion through his usual opaqueness, I think, so I may have underestimated his emotional engagement.

Quote:
Nas's big push in canon, and likely translated to the HS AU, is that he wants people to find that strength within themselves.

Again, fair, though it raises the obvious question as to what can be an acceptable interference with that process in that mindset. Nasperge obviously thinks that the contribution of an Aubedore reading and his own words still count as letting people find what they need within themselves. But meeting other people isn't just about being influenced by their opinions, but also learning from how your heart reacts to them. (I think Nasperge himself drew no little amount of strength from Moira) Though, of course, Nasperge probably thinks highly of certain specific skills of his - not inaccurately - and consider himself more suited or experienced in walking that fine line.
(this is just an academical question, not an ethical one or a concern I have about the piece or its characters)

Quote:
If you're up for writing it, Huey, I'd be very interested in a similar scene between Alessa and Elphimas, since you brought them up. The connection between Elphimas's reality rewrites and Alessa's chaos storms would be very interesting to explore.

Hm... while Alessa is pretty slippery to my writing grasp too, I'm intrigued by the interaction of Elphimas' rewrites and Alessa's foresight... since it's established that their rewrite is a very unconventional spell, it might... we'll see.

_________________
Johann the Bard (The Adventure Zone) wrote:

To anybody reading this, including my future selves: have a good life!

My creative archive


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: M:EM High School
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:19 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 9677
The Day Daneera Tried Debate Club


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: M:EM High School
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:38 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 3815
Thank you for sharing, Raven! I enjoyed it a lot, and it inspired me to write a little thing of my own:


epilogue

_________________
Come and play 3 Card Magic! The Most Minimalistic Magic Format! (TM)

my ego sig


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: M:EM High School
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:33 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 9677
Aaarrrgh wrote:
Thank you for sharing, Raven! I enjoyed it a lot, and it inspired me to write a little thing of my own:

epilogue

Thanks for reading, Aaarrrgh. I'm glad it inspired you. This one amused me to no end. The premise that people would argue against trees, particularly on the grounds of them being parasitic organisms, was so absurd to me that I was chuckling all day after thinking of it. And just the fact that this is such a stupid, petty, mundane way of the Rulus twins bullying Daneera, it made me think of the difference between canon Syl and Chardis and HS Syl and Chardis and how incredibly silly it is that they're just using rhetoric, fallacy, and flimsy simile to besmirch the name of trees.

Also, Totally Real Science Trimesterly cracks me up to no end, as does Raiker's declaration at the end: "On the recommendation of this club, trees are bad." That is one of the stupidest lines I've ever written, and I love it.

As for your postscript, I really like the glimpse we see of HS Tey'von (or would it just be Tey at this point?) It takes a lot of courage for someone to admit that they stood by and did nothing, even if they could not bring themselves to do anything in the moment. I intentionally didn't mention who else was present at the club meeting because I didn't want anybody to feel I was making their characters into bully accomplices. But I love that you've decided Tey'von would have been there, and would not have been happy with what happened. As Tey'von points out, nothing about this set-up was in the least bit fair, but of course, neither the Rulus nor Raiker are predisposed to fair play. To be honest, even my writing of this was not fair, because I skimmed over Daneera's part very quickly and focused much more on the Rulus's part. Because, of course, their part is hilarious (to me). I am very mean to Daneera sometimes, but man, was this fun to write.

I particularly love the little moment near the end when Daneera is trying to lighten the mood slightly by joking that Tey'von "owed her one," and Tey'von just takes her completely at her word and says okay, no problem. It will be interesting to see if Tey'von starts popping up around the high school a bit more from here on out (hint hint ;)). I bet there are a lot of interesting things he could get up to. I bet you could have fun with a debate between Tey'von and Dorn if you want to continue the debate club theme...

:D

Anyway, thanks for reading and thanks for writing! This thread continues to be a consistent source of amusement for me.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: M:EM High School
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 5:25 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 3815
Yeah, Raiker is a terrible debate coach. He didn't even open up for rebuttals, what the heck kind of debate is decided only on opening statements? Of course, in my head, the only part of competitive forensics (I only know it's called that because my wife did it in high school) Raiker cares about is dramatic interpretation, he just gets stuck dealing with the rest of it as well on occasion. But then again, the actual debate coach is probably the Duchess, so the result for Daneera might not have been much better...

When I read your piece, it irked me because I knew I wanted Tey'von in the club, and I wanted him to speak up (because he is in some ways a self insert, and I hope that I would have been willing to speak up in that situation), but then it made me consider what it would mean if he was there and took the easy way out. Then the story just flowed out of me.

And I have been meaning to write something for Tey'von here for a while, and connected to debate club too. And which would connect him to an ongoing story arc as well. I just don't output much these days. But hey, I did that little thing, so there's still hope!

_________________
Come and play 3 Card Magic! The Most Minimalistic Magic Format! (TM)

my ego sig


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: M:EM High School
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:29 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 11411
To be fair, at least in practice that's a thing. When I did high school competitive forensics one of the common early exercises was taking pro or con on "Be it resolved: chocolate milk comes from chocolate cows." The point was to illustrate (and practice!) the fact that in the faster formats like Impromptu, facts do not matter. Craft a logically consistent argument and deliver it well and it is totally irrelevant whether or not the premise is false. Because you can be randomly dealt the stand to take, you can't let your personal opinions influence your ability to argue the point. Things are different in the prepared debate formats like Policy or Lincoln-Douglass that have the topic be a serious one and available weeks in advance to pull file folders of evidence to cite, but even then you have to be ready to present either side, even one you passionately believe is wrong.

I think our club once had a gay couple win an argument where they had to stand opposed to gay marriage. In competition, mind you -- this was 2006 when it wasn't yet legal just about anywhere in the US but was in the news. As a former debater, I really do have to hand that one to Syl and Chardis.

_________________
"Enjoy your screams, Sarpadia - they will soon be muffled beneath snow and ice."

I have a blog. I review anime, and sometimes related media, with an analytical focus.

I'm a (self) published author now! You can find my first book, The Accursed, on Amazon as an ebook or a paperback!


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: M:EM High School
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:55 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 9677
Aaarrrgh wrote:
Yeah, Raiker is a terrible debate coach. He didn't even open up for rebuttals, what the heck kind of debate is decided only on opening statements? Of course, in my head, the only part of competitive forensics (I only know it's called that because my wife did it in high school) Raiker cares about is dramatic interpretation, he just gets stuck dealing with the rest of it as well on occasion. But then again, the actual debate coach is probably the Duchess, so the result for Daneera might not have been much better...

Yeah, I don't get the sense that Raiker particularly wants to be there, and certainly doesn't seem to care how the debate club conducts itself. Besides, I feel like after the opening statements, Daneera would follow the Homer Simpson model and simply moon for rebuttal.

:D

Aaarrrgh wrote:
When I read your piece, it irked me because I knew I wanted Tey'von in the club, and I wanted him to speak up (because he is in some ways a self insert, and I hope that I would have been willing to speak up in that situation), but then it made me consider what it would mean if he was there and took the easy way out. Then the story just flowed out of me.

I just figured he was absent that day. Maybe Mr. Wanderer took him on a fieldtrip. :P

But yeah, it definitely makes sense, and I can certainly see an alternative version of this story where Tey'von tries to say something and the Rulus shoot him down, too, and he is the only one (or maybe one of two or three, depending on who else is in the club) who votes against them. But I do like what it eventually created in the moment with Tey'von afterward. It also makes me think about what a religious debate would look like between Tey'von and the Rulus Twins who, in canon, pretended to be gods and the center of belief for four worlds. It would be an interesting dark mirror of "The Pilgrim and the Pharaoh" in that regard.

Aaarrrgh wrote:
And I have been meaning to write something for Tey'von here for a while, and connected to debate club too. And which would connect him to an ongoing story arc as well. I just don't output much these days. But hey, I did that little thing, so there's still hope!

Well, you are a busy person these days. I'm always glad to see your stuff go up, though, and one cool thing about the High School setting is that, being non-canon, there's hopefully not as much pressure on writers. We can just have fun writing, which presumably is a big part of why we do it. And of course, there is no need to post finished stories if you don't want to or don't have time. With a project like this one, a scene here and there is still fun to see!

To be fair, at least in practice that's a thing. When I did high school competitive forensics one of the common early exercises was taking pro or con on "Be it resolved: chocolate milk comes from chocolate cows." The point was to illustrate (and practice!) the fact that in the faster formats like Impromptu, facts do not matter. Craft a logically consistent argument and deliver it well and it is totally irrelevant whether or not the premise is false. Because you can be randomly dealt the stand to take, you can't let your personal opinions influence your ability to argue the point. Things are different in the prepared debate formats like Policy or Lincoln-Douglass that have the topic be a serious one and available weeks in advance to pull file folders of evidence to cite, but even then you have to be ready to present either side, even one you passionately believe is wrong.

"Chocolate milk coming from Chocolate cows is, at best, a half truth. While my opponent would have you belief that there are chocolate cows out there, wandering about in their chocolate fields, being milked by chocolate farmers beneath a chocolate sun, all well-informed people know that this is, of course, not the case. I concede that the truth is not far off, but we, as seekers of truth, must likewise be seekers of accuracy. Chocolate Milk is, naturally, produced by the Cocoa Cow, as indeed chocolate itself is produced from the cocoa tree. The reason so few people know of or indeed have ever seen a Cocoa Cow in person is that when chocolate milk was first approved for human consumption back in 1924, exclusive rights to its production were jointly purchased by three US dairy farms, two in Iowa and one in northern California, which have since dispersed their products to a variety of companies across the world. Their exclusive rights to these Cocoa Cows expires at the century mark, in fast-approaching 2024, and I know we are all excited about the prospect of an open chocolate market coming in just a few years."

This is fun. :)

As a former debater, I really do have to hand that one to Syl and Chardis.

Syl particularly is pleased with what she does. She is, as in her field, a Syl content...

…nobody's going to get that...

:D


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: M:EM High School
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:35 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 9677
Happy Valentine's Day, folks. Seeing as how Orcish is not here to give us a Beryl and Aloise smooch story, I've taken it upon myself to do precisely that. Enjoy!

Cowclops


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: M:EM High School
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:23 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 19, 2015
Posts: 1500
Location: Homestuck rehab center
Identity: Inertially male
Preferred Pronoun Set: he/him
Late af to comment, but here it is: I love it! It lays more ground for Beryl's backstory and the sweetheart's encounter, and I felt for Beryl a lot throughout the piece. Thank you for sharing!

_________________
Johann the Bard (The Adventure Zone) wrote:

To anybody reading this, including my future selves: have a good life!

My creative archive


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: M:EM High School
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 4:37 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 9677
Late af to comment, but here it is: I love it! It lays more ground for Beryl's backstory and the sweetheart's encounter, and I felt for Beryl a lot throughout the piece. Thank you for sharing!

Thanks for reading, Huey! I had fun with this one. I have no earthly idea how "cowclops" of all things popped into my head, but I like how the story turned out.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: M:EM High School
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:25 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 3815
Yeah, that was a fun one, Raven! Thanks for sharing!

_________________
Come and play 3 Card Magic! The Most Minimalistic Magic Format! (TM)

my ego sig


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 180 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group