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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:44 pm 
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I always end up hating myself when I post too frequently because of how I waffle back and forth on things or blurt something out without thinking.

That said, I was wondering if anyone has any experience as to whether Konosuba has a good English dub? Since I have a piece of merch (one of those keychain/phone charms that I literally found on the ground outside a Best Buy), I figured I might go ahead and tackle that. I might have even gone for the Spanish dub, but it seems that's only for paid subscribers, so that's a no-go, I guess.

Supposedly the Konosuba dub is solid. I've seen a clip or two here and there.
I'd love to actually watch the series, if THEY'D EVER PUT IT OUT ON PHYSICAL MEDIA.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:14 pm 
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mjack33 wrote:
I didn’t even finish one season of AoT. I am genuinely surprised it’s up to three.

Oh? I could easily go on at length about everything I think makes AoT a bad show, but I'm curious what made you drop it. It seems to be some sort of darling among the anime community as some are even calling it "a modern classic in the making," but nearly everyone I have personally talked with about the show seems to share my opinion that it's hot garbage (those that have seen it, obviously).

Barinellos wrote:
Supposedly the Konosuba dub is solid. I've seen a clip or two here and there.
I'd love to actually watch the series, if THEY'D EVER PUT IT OUT ON PHYSICAL MEDIA.

My very first thought was, "well, I know what my next gift for you could be," but then after a quick web search I realized that the series hasn't seemed to have gotten a DVD/Blu-Ray release outside of Japan. I did see some physical discs on Amazon (English subs included), but with how stupid region-locking is I doubt it would work in a U.S. media player. Sorry.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:25 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
Supposedly the Konosuba dub is solid. I've seen a clip or two here and there.
I'd love to actually watch the series, if THEY'D EVER PUT IT OUT ON PHYSICAL MEDIA.

My very first thought was, "well, I know what my next gift for you could be," but then after a quick web search I realized that the series hasn't seemed to have gotten a DVD/Blu-Ray release outside of Japan. I did see some physical discs on Amazon (English subs included), but with how stupid region-locking is I doubt it would work in a U.S. media player. Sorry.

You've absolutely nothing to apologize for. I just have a serious issue with Crunchyroll ever actually getting rights to things because their model is predicated as a service when what they end up with is products that they'll devalue by ignoring secondary market aspects. At least when they were partnered with Funimation, there was an infrastructure they could pass properties off to, but I feel like if they're so obsessed with their business model, they need to leave localization to companies that can meet demands they aren't prepared for.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:49 am 
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mjack33 wrote:
I didn’t even finish one season of AoT. I am genuinely surprised it’s up to three.

Really? You're surprised? It was a massive anime phenomenon when it aired.

Then it took 4 years for s2 to come and the normie hype died off.
Barinellos wrote:
Supposedly the Konosuba dub is solid. I've seen a clip or two here and there.
I'd love to actually watch the series, if THEY'D EVER PUT IT OUT ON PHYSICAL MEDIA.

Wait, you only watch anime with physical English releases?

Why?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 1:56 am 
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Mown wrote:
Barinellos wrote:
Supposedly the Konosuba dub is solid. I've seen a clip or two here and there.
I'd love to actually watch the series, if THEY'D EVER PUT IT OUT ON PHYSICAL MEDIA.

Wait, you only watch anime with physical English releases?

Why?

Unless it comes on TV, but even then, if I like it, I'll buy it.
2 reasons:
1) I have no streaming services and have no interest in acquiring any.*
2) I like the physicality of holding something, of owning a copy.

*caveat: There are a few times, very rarely when I'll watch something online. Such as Gundam since they put their series up for free on Youtube. Or with something like Interspecies Reviewers.

edit: I got defensive and it was a bit uncalled for.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:11 am 
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I understand the appeal of owning things, I back board game kickstarters and buy limited editions of things because having things is inherently nice, but I can't imagine sharing that stance with you. It would be really expensive for me to purchase the 60-80 shows I watch a year or however many, I wouldn't be able to watch things as they're coming out, I'd have to pay for things I'm interested in and end up dropping, and after some years pass by my disks will probably all be a more outdated medium than even books, since at least I can read those.

you contribute more to the industry than I do though, so I'm not going to sit here and complain or anything
television is a streaming service

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:25 am 
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Mown wrote:
I understand the appeal of owning things, I back board game kickstarters and buy limited editions of things because having things is inherently nice, but I can't imagine sharing that stance with you. It would be really expensive for me to purchase the 60-80 shows I watch a year or however many, I wouldn't be able to watch things as they're coming out, I'd have to pay for things I'm interested in and end up dropping, and after some years pass by my disks will probably all be a more outdated medium than even books, since at least I can read those.

you contribute more to the industry than I do though, so I'm not going to sit here and complain or anything
television is a streaming service

Most of what I buy is acquired when I go to the convention I attend, so that's part of it too.

re:TV- perhaps, but it's an inherently different format and the avoidance of decision paralysis counts for something.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:51 am 
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I’m not surprised it got a season 2. I’m surprised it got a season 3 lol.

AoT was a **** mech anime with occasional cool acrobatics that tried way to hard to make things emotional without any of the character building needed to actually make the audience give a ****.

The pacing was also all over the place iirc. Wasn’t episode 2 or 3 entirely the one character trying to balance on a broken device without much actual plot? Then they started killing people whose names I didn’t remember off within a couple episodes and I didn’t know why theh wanted me to care.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:03 am 
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mjack33 wrote:
I’m not surprised it got a season 2. I’m surprised it got a season 3 lol.

why should they cancel a very very popular anime!?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:38 am 
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mjack33 wrote:
I’m not surprised it got a season 2. I’m surprised it got a season 3 lol.

But season 2 was also fairly popular? And you didn't even watch it? What is there to surprised about?
It also has a live action adaptation and a comedy spinoff.

Would you be shocked if I told you Justin Bieber released a new album this year?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:15 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
You've absolutely nothing to apologize for. I just have a serious issue with Crunchyroll ever actually getting rights to things because their model is predicated as a service when what they end up with is products that they'll devalue by ignoring secondary market aspects. At least when they were partnered with Funimation, there was an infrastructure they could pass properties off to, but I feel like if they're so obsessed with their business model, they need to leave localization to companies that can meet demands they aren't prepared for.

I mean, to my knowledge Crunchyroll is slowly dying in part because of that. I was under the impression that more companies than just Funimation cut their agreements with Crunchyroll in order to launch streaming services of their own (e.g. Sentai and their streaming service HIDIVE). It's causing Crunchyroll to bleed off more money as they're facing better competition and having to buy licenses for themselves, without much in terms of long tails like you say.

Mown wrote:
I understand the appeal of owning things, I back board game kickstarters and buy limited editions of things because having things is inherently nice, but I can't imagine sharing that stance with you. It would be really expensive for me to purchase the 60-80 shows I watch a year or however many, I wouldn't be able to watch things as they're coming out, I'd have to pay for things I'm interested in and end up dropping, and after some years pass by my disks will probably all be a more outdated medium than even books, since at least I can read those.

you contribute more to the industry than I do though, so I'm not going to sit here and complain or anything
television is a streaming service

I think it's worth pointing out that said viewing habits probably came about as a direct consequence of having so much choice in on-demand streaming service. Even just counting full shows available for free legally, there is a WEALTH of shows from many eras available to watch at your convenience, and I'd guess that any of the major streaming sites have 50% or more of their content behind paid subscriptions, which are ALSO a pittance even when just compared to most forms of television (cable/satellite). Looking at a map of internet penetration in the U.S., there are huge swathes of the country that don't have reliable access even to 3Mbits/s, and that's without going into how the privatized internet sector has basically carved out little fiefdoms so that they don't technically have to compete with each other.

As Barinellos says, though, TV is inherently different from what everyone agrees is a streaming service. It wouldn't be right to compare someone's viewing habits on TV to what media they buy in the same way you would compare someone's viewing habits on streaming services to what media they buy.

I think this is more of a misunderstanding of culture/geography than of different lifestyles, because from everything I've heard, most of Europe is leagues ahead the U.S. when it comes to internet.

mjack33 wrote:
I’m not surprised it got a season 2. I’m surprised it got a season 3 lol.

AoT was a **** mech anime with occasional cool acrobatics that tried way to hard to make things emotional without any of the character building needed to actually make the audience give a ****.

The pacing was also all over the place iirc. Wasn’t episode 2 or 3 entirely the one character trying to balance on a broken device without much actual plot? Then they started killing people whose names I didn’t remember off within a couple episodes and I didn’t know why theh wanted me to care.

I mean, I had all those complaints and more even during the first season, but I wouldn't necessarily criticize the first 3-5 episodes of a show for, you know, being a prologue to set up the plot.

(It was only recently that I started wondering whether I should consider AoT a mecha show, though.)

Mown wrote:
But season 2 was also fairly popular? And you didn't even watch it? What is there to surprised about?
It also has a live action adaptation and a comedy spinoff.

Would you be shocked if I told you Justin Bieber released a new album this year?

I mean, yes, but for different reasons.

Because of the way the music industry works, bands and musicians can and do take years between album releases. However, they can also produce and release singles in the mean time, and can also work with other bands/musicians on other projects, or simply do live performances or tours.

I'm shocked that Justin Bieber released an album this year, not that Justin Bieber released an album this year.

Also there have actually been multiple official comedy spoofs of AoT, as I've recently learned. Junior High, Chibi Theater (was included in the physical release), and the Spoof on Titan manga at least, if we're not counting the other spin-off media.

All that said, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that something that has the particular characteristics of Attack on Titan wouldn't get a continuation. It's easy to forget how accepting the general public is of horrible writing or inconsistent worldbuilding (I'll admit that AoT's worldbuilding isn't exactly inconsistent, but that is something the general public will accept without hesitation), and when you come across something as terribly written as AoT, you might think to yourself, "people will never fall for this." It's also fairly easy to believe that when a series has so many years in-between seasons, even if the die-hard fans continue it, that there would no longer be quite enough interest for the studios to justify making more seasons of it, even if it were highly rated. "Everybody loved Gitaroo Man, nobody bought Gitaroo Man." AoT season 1 in particular obviously had a huge animation budget, which leaves the production studios between a rock and a hard place if they continue it without enough interest: downgrade the visuals too much and the backlash (and drop in popularity) will mean another season would NEVER get green-lit, but keep the visuals at the same quality and they'd be spending too much money and never make it back.

For what it's worth, I don't think they did horribly in the downgraded visuals (mostly talking about the CGI inserts like horses) in the later seasons, but even without looking into it I can guess the reasoning for doing it was that they didn't have the same budget as they did for season 1.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:24 pm 
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:rant::rant::rant:
:shake::shake::shake:
:bang::bang::bang:

I cannot adequately express how much I hate both my body and these streaming services, that I have to keep going to the subbed version of anime instead of the dub BECAUSE I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'RE SAYING WITHOUT SUBTITLES. ****.

I even decided to jump in on some reddit rewatch of Dennoh Coil (Den-Noh? Dennou?), but despite HIDIVE specifically offering a "English dub w/ English caps" option, it's apparent within the first SECOND of dialogue that THERE ARE NO **** CAPTIONS AND THAT JUST INFURIATES ME.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:40 pm 
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I'd heard of Den-Noh (or whatever) Coil and was quite interested. Wasn't looking at it at the moment though. Big oof on trying to watch through. If I understand, the dub is of a quality level where you can't understand the English most of the time, yes? That sounds really rough, as does not getting captions when promised captions. Makes me kind of glad I prefer subs in general

What I am watching at the moment and is kind of germane back to art styles... I just watched the first episode of Tower of God (my "new" anime for Spring 2020; I try to watch one current thing amidst the lot of older stuff) and it actually has a very different art style overall. I don't think the episode is freely watchable right now (I have a Crunchyroll sub) but when it is it might be worth looking at on the topic of anime that do something at least somewhat different with art.

I also have been watching Sailor Moon Crystal and the change from seasons 1-2 to season 3 (also today) was... Jarring. Seasons 1 & 2 are in an older style, not quite the current industry "standard", but season 3 is very much present "standard" and even though the difference is objectively small when the same show looked different literally yesterday to me it was very noticeable.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:33 pm 
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I'd heard of Den-Noh (or whatever) Coil and was quite interested. Wasn't looking at it at the moment though. Big oof on trying to watch through. If I understand, the dub is of a quality level where you can't understand the English most of the time, yes? That sounds really rough, as does not getting captions when promised captions. Makes me kind of glad I prefer subs in general

To be entirely clear: it's a me problem, because I'm hard-of-hearing. I can't actually talk to the quality of the dub of Dennou Coil because I can't watch most things without subtitles; it's the number one with a bullet reason that I will take DVD > theatre every time. I actually couldn't track down any talk about the quality of the dub because it apparently only got dubbed in 2016, nearly a decade after it aired. Supposedly even the creator said that it was never going to get a dub, so all the talk about it is not "sub or dub" but rather "omg Dennou Coil is getting a dub?!?!"


I also have been watching Sailor Moon Crystal and the change from seasons 1-2 to season 3 (also today) was... Jarring. Seasons 1 & 2 are in an older style, not quite the current industry "standard", but season 3 is very much present "standard" and even though the difference is objectively small when the same show looked different literally yesterday to me it was very noticeable.

Yeah you don't know how much I've been both wanting to bring up as well as avoiding bringing up Pokémon in all this talk about anime style. They kept the same style for, what was it, 20 years? before "updating" it for the Alola region anime, and every time I look at it I just... *flails*

Like, what am I supposed to do with it? It looks to me like those cakes that aren't like, horrifying, but they're so obviously not from those professional pastries you see on TV and the cake just has SOMETHING about it that throws you completely off. It's that kind of feeling. It's like, "I recognize what you were going for, but it doesn't look like how I know this thing is supposed to look."

And at the same time I don't want to hold it against the show because, like... it didn't update its designs for 20 years, of course it's gotten stale. I realize that. I also realize that it's a kind of perfect example for what I was arguing in favor of, but when I can't get behind the change myself it kind of undermines my entire point, doesn't it?

QUICKEDIT: holy moly I used "like" way too many times in this post


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:05 am 
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I also have been watching Sailor Moon Crystal and the change from seasons 1-2 to season 3 (also today) was... Jarring. Seasons 1 & 2 are in an older style, not quite the current industry "standard", but season 3 is very much present "standard" and even though the difference is objectively small when the same show looked different literally yesterday to me it was very noticeable.

Crystal is a series that I've fairly conflicted feelings about. While it sticks closer to the book's stories, the older run is so iconic that any difference is going to seem enormous, even if it's not. And if I'm being honest, I think the older series benefited from being a production instead of the work of a singular person.

In other news entirely, I've had a nightmare that's likely going to be keeping me up the rest of the night.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:11 am 
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The Justin Bieber comparison wasn't really about release schedules and more just to reinforce that people are successful releasing content that you don't care to consume. In the same way that you're not surprised Justin Bieber released an album, you shouldn't be surprised that Attack on Titan got a new season. It's one of the highest selling manga of all time.

It took me a bit to adjust to Ash's new whiskers, but I think the new art style fits the show a lot better. The old one just got progressively more and more serious for what is predominantly a comfy adventure show aimed at kids, and it's really embraced that with SM and SWSH.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:17 am 
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I'll also remark that it makes sense that Tower of God has a somewhat different art-style. Most projects tend to borrow some of the aesthetics of the source material, and Tower of God is notably a korean webtoon. I can't say I personally found it to be remarkably different though, at least not more so than your typical Trigger or Masaaki Yuasa production.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:58 pm 
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I’m surprised bc A) it took them so long to make a second season and B) i know very few hardcore anime people who liked it. So it seems like the hardcore crowd didn’t like it while they took too long making season 2 to keep momentum going.

Of course i am probably completely wrong on all accounts.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:23 pm 
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Mown wrote:
The Justin Bieber comparison wasn't really about release schedules and more just to reinforce that people are successful releasing content that you don't care to consume. In the same way that you're not surprised Justin Bieber released an album, you shouldn't be surprised that Attack on Titan got a new season. It's one of the highest selling manga of all time.

That's fair enough, particularly because I didn't know that the manga did so well (I mean, I know almost all manga that are picked up for anime conversion *sell well,* but I doubt many can claim to be "among the highest selling of all time.")

I know I'm being pedantic, but it's just something that bugs me: I feel like there's a better example to be made than Bieber. I may need to look more into how the music industry operates, though, because something tells me there's a difference in scale between the two that still doesn't make the comparison particularly apt. I only really know about the general budgets and production processes of video games and Hollywood movies though, and I'm pretty sure the mechanisms which drive what gets picked up (risk-analysis etc.) isn't the same as with anime.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:55 pm 
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I know I'm being pedantic, but it's just something that bugs me: I feel like there's a better example to be made than Bieber. I may need to look more into how the music industry operates, though, because something tells me there's a difference in scale between the two that still doesn't make the comparison particularly apt. I only really know about the general budgets and production processes of video games and Hollywood movies though, and I'm pretty sure the mechanisms which drive what gets picked up (risk-analysis etc.) isn't the same as with anime.

Well, a prime example from everything I've gathered is just that anime isn't entirely a product on its own. Stuff gets picked often as a means of exposure for the source material. It's essentially an ad that you can sell ads on.
That's why it's so damn common to see one season wonders, is that aside from high profile projects, studios themselves see their work only as a means to push books.

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