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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:56 am 
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Vote count:
Aaarrrgh:0 votes
Cardinal dreven:0 votes
Duskyblue:0 votes
KoD:1 vote:Neosilk.
Neosilk:0 votes
Ragnarokio::0 votes
Rubik:0 votes
Skystone:0 votes


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:38 pm 
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Therein lies the problem with what you're doing. Here, let's just do it this way.

[color=Vote: Neo

I don't see any situation where you don't pick roles that would make you likely to be mafia Neo. Thus why I am now voting for you.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:39 pm 
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EBWOP:

Vote: Neo


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:48 pm 
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Hello!

Vote: Ragnarokio


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:52 pm 
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KoD - you should know that I hate being mafia. I'm terrible at it. Not that I'm good as town, but it feels like less pressure.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:52 pm 
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Rubik wrote:
Hello!

Vote: Ragnarokio

Why? Random or...?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:54 pm 
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It's been too long since I've seen you Rubik. I wish you the best in nailing Rag.

Preview Edit:

I'm sorry Neo, are you telling me that like it is a fact? Because you should know better.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:01 pm 
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The only good Ragnarokio is a dead one.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:37 pm 
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So, Dusky and Jay clearly comprise a cult, regardless of whether this is also true in-game.

Duskyblue wrote:

Also, Skystone is either suicidal or allowed to post at night.


Clearly, I'm a special kind of jester that wins by getting mod-killed.



@KoD: You might be shocked and awed to learn that there is, in fact, a field of study that predict people's behaviour based on their cognitive characteristics. We call this mysterious 'art' psychology. Now, I don't want to assume that my former protégé has succumbed to perfidy, but the rhetorical hyperbole with which you have replied to Neo (rather than, say, refuting him based on a factual recitation of your psychographic qualities), is worthy of some amount of suspicion.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:35 am 
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Vote count:
Aaarrrgh:0 votes
Cardinal dreven:0 votes
Duskyblue:0 votes
KoD:1 vote:Neosilk.
Neosilk:1 vote: KoD.
Ragnarokio::1 vote: Rubik.
Rubik:0 votes
Skystone:0 votes


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:02 am 
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@skystone: Joking about wanting to be modkilled does not explain either why you took an action that should have gotten you killed, or why the mod didn't kill you. You get scum points.

Vote: Skystone

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:33 am 
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Skystone wrote:
So, Dusky and Jay clearly comprise a cult, regardless of whether this is also true in-game.


Join us.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:15 am 
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@Sky:

There is a reason I am a *former* protege.

:V

Psychology is fine and dandy if you have something concrete to work with. Something more than the nonexistent stuff Neo has offered. Or, to put it in another way that may be more relateable, Neo essentially put forth a playstyle case against me minus any sort of plays to look at in this game. He is instead assuming that I will pick mafia just because. There's nothing concrete to back up his assertion. Do you see any sort of evidence that points in the direction of me preferring one alignment over another? How about some sort of bias that would at least prop the assertion up even just a little bit?

The fact of the matter is Neo has an *opinion* and is asserting that I must be mafia off of this opinion that has no solid leg to stand on. That rhetorical hyperbole you mentioned has a point. It was to illustrate how ludicrous it was to push such an agenda (again, since it can be applied to anyone).

So I'm curious, why back him and his nonexistent psychology research on me?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:36 am 
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Skystone wrote:
So, Dusky and Jay clearly comprise a cult, regardless of whether this is also true in-game..

The cult of enlightened citizens, seeking to cleanse the evil from this town. Surely something you should be fond of.

@Neo: surely you aren't arguing this game exists in a vacuum or, to keep the psychology vibe going, a tabula rasa? See Rubik.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:37 am 
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EBWOP

I meant to ask KoD, not Neo.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:42 am 
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KoD - I picked you mainly to see your reaction. The retaliation vote on me and the lack of anything of substance from you has only strengthened my belief.
The only agenda that I'm pushing is a scum lynch. And so far, I still believe you to be the strongest target.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:03 pm 
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KoD is fundamentally right here. Neo could make two psychological arguments in this situation. The first is that Everyman would attempt to be scum. This is the argument KoD is reapplying to Neo. The second is that KoD specifically would seek to be scum, but to make this argument you would have to show a pattern of behavior for KoD outside of games, where his behavior isnt already tainted by having a role. Since Neo didn't bother to do this his premise isn't founded in fact to an outsiders perspective. Add to this that Neo readily admitted to "picking" KoD, indicating that KoD is irrelevant to Neo's argument, further validating KoD's point.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:18 pm 
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@Dusky:

I'm arguing that Neo has put forth nothing of worth to back up his assertion that I would tend towards scum. Birden of proof rests on his shoulders. He asserts I would pick in such a way as to be as scummy as possible, but he has nothing to point to in this game or even outside of it.

So no, Dusky, I'm not arguing that this game exists in a vacuum.


@Neo:

So you're transitioning into a reaction troll after being rebuked. Did you dislike my illustration of your case by repeating it against you?

The only thing I find odd about this exchange is that you are not this quick to come out the gate swinging with votes (excluding joking around).That's more in the vein of hardheaded players.

:V

@Sky again: a response to my question pls


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:48 pm 
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I'd like to take this moment to reaffirm that JD understands me like no other.

:V


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:51 pm 
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@Sky:

Psychology is fine and dandy if you have something concrete to work with. Something more than the nonexistent stuff Neo has offered. Or, to put it in another way that may be more relateable, Neo essentially put forth a playstyle case against me minus any sort of plays to look at in this game. He is instead assuming that I will pick mafia just because. There's nothing concrete to back up his assertion. Do you see any sort of evidence that points in the direction of me preferring one alignment over another? How about some sort of bias that would at least prop the assertion up even just a little bit?


The essential element is not that you are mafia "just because", but that you are an entity that persists through time and space independently of specific instances of Mafia games. Consequently, your individual preferences inform the kinds of choices you make (i.e. if you are demonstrably the sort of individual who prefers to play as mafia, then in a game where you are given an opportunity to increase your own chances of receiving a mafia role, it is reasonable to assume, on the balance of probability, that you are more likely to be mafia than a player who is psychologically more likely to prefer town roles.


Quote:
So I'm curious, why back him and his nonexistent psychology research on me?


I am, in fact, not backing his assertion. On the contrary, I have no particular reason to accept the premise that you are psychologically inclined to prefer mafia roles. The functional concern was specifically that you chose to counter Neo's argument not with a refutation of the premise (i.e. that you might possess the aforementioned characteristics) or the syllogism itself, but that you tried to construe his point as an arbitrary claim about a so-called Everyman. This is suspicious insofar as you had a simple and innocuous and logically consistent out in the form of "I'm not like that, and if you think that I prefer mafia roles, then you need to prove it."

@Dusky:

I'm arguing that Neo has put forth nothing of worth to back up his assertion that I would tend towards scum. Birden of proof rests on his shoulders. He asserts I would pick in such a way as to be as scummy as possible, but he has nothing to point to in this game or even outside of it.


Sure. As I noted above, I'm perfectly happy with this sort of refutation.

KoD is fundamentally right here. Neo could make two psychological arguments in this situation. The first is that Everyman would attempt to be scum. This is the argument KoD is reapplying to Neo. The second is that KoD specifically would seek to be scum, but to make this argument you would have to show a pattern of behavior for KoD outside of games, where his behavior isnt already tainted by having a role. Since Neo didn't bother to do this his premise isn't founded in fact to an outsiders perspective. Add to this that Neo readily admitted to "picking" KoD, indicating that KoD is irrelevant to Neo's argument, further validating KoD's point.


I think (as, I believe, does Dusky) that it is reasonably clear that Neo intended the second sort of argument, not the first. This is evident in the fact that he picked a target. The quality or absence of evidence for an argument is separate from the quality of form of the argument itself, i.e. an argument can be logically sound with poor premises, or logically inconsistent with well-evidenced and convincing premises.


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