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 Post subject: Re: THE DUNGEON
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:11 pm 
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There is a lot wrong here with your approach to this game.

First and foremost, you want town to trust you, but you give no reason to do so. Case in point: What is so good about you winning that you'd want town to have you win? What if you're mafia? Trust works both ways, and you are certainly doing nothing to make me trust you now despite my town view I, erroneously, had of you prior to pull you in here.

Second, you trust Silly who is either confirmed self or mafia more than me? Do you realize how messed up that is? Here is what your opinion of me was as current as 31 Oct @ 1:31pm pst:

Alt
Quote:
It depends on the terminology you use.
Yes I can use abilities in Limbo. However, I'm not entirely sure everyone can.

With what has been going on, I know that I am but a small voice, and i'll be darned before I call it reason lol.
But I just know form prior personal experience that town KOD tunnels so hard that it would cause the great wall of china to fall in no time.

Even if I don't agree with KOD, I have some heart to believe him to be town. That said, it doesn't help anything other than it does make me think he's more town than anything else.


I had already been at Silly's throat a long time when you had made that quote, not to mention I had gone back and forth over Rag. Since that post, you made several other posts, two of which were on the third and fourth of Nov. Not once did you mention disliking my flipfloppyness or anything like what you are saying here.

Third, we don't want to draw here. We want town to win the power, get the reward, and get back into the main game to stop mafia from winning. You're the only one keen on not doing that, and that is anti-town more than anything.

Seriously, nothing you are doing here is productive towards town accomplishing their goals at all. Were it not for me viewing Silly as such an anti-town element, I'd practically be tempted to vote you, but I'm sure you're just being difficult. If you really want to help town, vote Silly so we can advance this game state and get back to the main game to help town.


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 Post subject: Re: THE DUNGEON
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:12 pm 
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Didn't you just get done saying you trust Neo? Neo is voting Silly. So what is your problem?


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 Post subject: Re: THE DUNGEON
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:15 pm 
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I said "trust" as in I want to vote him last. That's what the quotes mean.

I don't think I need to ask town to trust me. I used an ability and basically came off as town to others, and nobody truly took an opposing view to it. I'm simply moving forward with that in mind. I'm only resaying what others have been saying. Regarding trust explicitly, I never said I wanted people to trust me, I simply said if there are town here, my reward for winning is powerful for town.

I'm allowed to change my opinion based on several dozens of pages of posts within that given time frame. You continuously bring fraying andor flawed evidence and present it as proof. It's the reason I "trust" Silly more than you. Again, I still don't trust any of you, but I'd rather see you and silly voted, before neo. So stop twisting my usage of "trust". I've been explicit with it, and there should be no room for confusion.

As for trusting neo. I can trust someone without agreeing with them. I can trust that he has honest intent even if I disagree. I feel you are more dangerous in this SUB game, than Silly is. I can actually attest to that (assuming you guys trust me).

In this sub game, silly is harmless. I sent Silly a letter last night. Interpret however you wish.

I still think that the game is better off in a draw. based on how things have worked out so far. I may be wrong, but I'm willing to take that risk. We are still part of the game, but we are unable to be interacted with. Unless I'm missing something from the main game.

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squinty_eyes: Alt, you have fantastic logic. And zero political prowess.
CKY: Through a convoluted series of events involving three tons of garden gnomes and a pickup truck, Henderson’s Magikarp defeats the Deoxys terrorizing the city.

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 Post subject: Re: THE DUNGEON
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:18 pm 
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If you truly think JD is mafia, make sure this sub game ends during night main game.

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squinty_eyes: Alt, you have fantastic logic. And zero political prowess.
CKY: Through a convoluted series of events involving three tons of garden gnomes and a pickup truck, Henderson’s Magikarp defeats the Deoxys terrorizing the city.

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 Post subject: Re: THE DUNGEON
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:22 pm 
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You used an ability and came off as town because *****argued***** it. I'm virtually the only one that argued it. Anyone you find viewing you as town because of that is because I convinced them of it. But I'm beginning to question it given YOU are flipping on your own pov wrt to me.

As it stands, yes you do need to ask town to trust you. Unlike you, I actually died and flipped town. I've since come back and, quite noticeably, your own perspective in the main game was that I was town ***WITHOUT*** a hint that you thought I was anti-town. You expressing distrust now is completely new and a switch up from what you've maintained earlier.

Want to know something else? Aside from saying that you believe me to be town because of what has occurred in the main game (in the quote I quoted), you never once really commented in depth about any of the mechanical interactions happening like:

1 - PK not rezing me.
2 - Silly's win con being copped by Rag.
3 - Silly's win con being self despite JD claiming self (Hint: Rules say only one confirmed self in the game).

So yeah, you'll have to excuse me if I'm having trouble accepting you now due to what you're spewing. Especially since it concerns you trusting Silly who is by no means town if you take Rag's investigation (an ability confirmed by PK) at face value.


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 Post subject: Re: THE DUNGEON
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:26 pm 
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As a by the by, changing your opinion whenever you want is fine so long as there is a clear trail of that. You don't have that trail anywhere. You literally went from one day viewing me as town, then, despite four days passing, never once expressed a serious concern with my alignment (one in which you never actually progress why you think I am anti-town aside from my constant arguing which isn't enough given the mechanical interactions that have come about).

But you know what? It's fine. You're not doing anything to help my view of you.


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 Post subject: Re: THE DUNGEON
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:29 pm 
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And no, the game is not better in a draw. At all.

We just saw a mislynch where they pushed a lynch on someone who was obv town because lol bastard mod lying. But hey, JD swung two votes at him and Rag bought into it.

So now town is in danger of losing, but you want to stay here effectively out of the main game which will result, likely, in a loss for town given Silly is hte self and JD isn't. What's up with that?


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 Post subject: Re: THE DUNGEON
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:50 pm 
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Also, trust isn't to be used loosely here. Silly being "harmless" here is not the same as Silly being harmless in the main game.

Fact of the matter is Silly isn't town. You have yet to address the mechanical stuff surrounding that situation. I'd like you to do so now.

Matter of fact what is your main game reads on everyone? Answer this because it will tell whether or not you are mafia.


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 Post subject: Re: THE DUNGEON
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:58 pm 
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i picked a pretty bad day to not be very active

will read things more carefully tomorrow

in the meantime

vote kod

needs to die

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 Post subject: Re: THE DUNGEON
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:00 pm 
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also, does anybody realize that so many people being in limbo is actually really awful?

if mafia gets their nightkill tonight there will only be three people alive in the main game

JD has two votes, meaning he can hammer somebody tomorrow by himself

lol

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 Post subject: Re: THE DUNGEON
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:03 pm 
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I might be wrong, but I'm sick of you twisting my words.
It's High Noon! KOD
Vote: KOD

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squinty_eyes: Alt, you have fantastic logic. And zero political prowess.
CKY: Through a convoluted series of events involving three tons of garden gnomes and a pickup truck, Henderson’s Magikarp defeats the Deoxys terrorizing the city.

My Cube | My Designs | My Art
Silver Soraka Main


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 Post subject: Re: THE DUNGEON
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:04 pm 
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If this sub game ends during the night I can take JD's vote away.
I'm ready to give up about the tetris lock.

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squinty_eyes: Alt, you have fantastic logic. And zero political prowess.
CKY: Through a convoluted series of events involving three tons of garden gnomes and a pickup truck, Henderson’s Magikarp defeats the Deoxys terrorizing the city.

My Cube | My Designs | My Art
Silver Soraka Main


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 Post subject: Re: THE DUNGEON
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:05 pm 
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Everyone will need to revote today.

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squinty_eyes: Alt, you have fantastic logic. And zero political prowess.
CKY: Through a convoluted series of events involving three tons of garden gnomes and a pickup truck, Henderson’s Magikarp defeats the Deoxys terrorizing the city.

My Cube | My Designs | My Art
Silver Soraka Main


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 Post subject: Re: THE DUNGEON
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:08 pm 
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Why?


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 Post subject: Re: THE DUNGEON
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:09 pm 
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vote kod

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 Post subject: Re: THE DUNGEON
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:11 pm 
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Let's try a different approach.

Alt, do you think I am mafia in the main game? If yes, please explain.


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 Post subject: Re: THE DUNGEON
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:30 pm 
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I just realized that days in here only last like one real life day, so I took some of my free time that i didn't really want to spend on mafia to actually post things

There is a lot wrong here with your approach to this game.

First and foremost, you want town to trust you, but you give no reason to do so.

am i not recalling things correctly

or wasn't everybody claiming alt to be very town around day 2 or early day 3?

what happened to that?

i mean you've done nothing to make anybody trust you besides die spectacularly

and just because zinger says you were town then doesn't mean you have towns best interests in mind

like pk obviously affects win cons

and mine was modified as well

theres clearly some shenanigans going on

and if you just ignore the death post and look at you're play you certainly have done nothing to get people to trust you

besides trying to railroad the entire town into decisions that have been questionable at best


Second, you trust Silly who is either confirmed self or mafia

since when was i confirmed mafia?

rag claimed that i was a survivor, so if im confirmed anything (assuming you trust rag) thats the only thing i can be confirmed as

if you dont believe rag then im not confirmed anything

We just saw a mislynch where they pushed a lynch on someone who was obv town because lol bastard mod lying. But hey, JD swung two votes at him and Rag bought into it.


I feel like you're blowing the mislynch out of proportion, like somehow the fact that Fred died and ended up flipping town was devastating or something

yes, JD is a wild card, but its not like fred was completely innocent either

like half of the players in the game had expressed sentiment at various points for attempting a fred lynch

the fact that he died so early was unfortunate, but it seems like you're placing all the emphasis on the fact that he was town and therefore him dying was evil mafia schemes or something

-------------------------------------------

please kill kod ive been saying this for like the last hundred posts but he kind of needs to die

also this is my fourth post of the day

i only have one more today in this thread so im probably just going to ignore you unless something really relevant happens and I really need to burn my last post

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 Post subject: Re: THE DUNGEON
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:11 pm 
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1. Regarding Alt causing my lynch in the main game -

Arrgh
Quote:
Also, Altimis; why so quick to claim just because I called you out? If you are so willing to share, why didn't you say anything before using the ability? It seems like that's the kind of thing you should get input on.


Neo
Quote:
I'm still here, still trying to catch up - issues at work might prevent me from really reviewing everything until tonight. At a quick glance, I'm not liking PaK or Alt right now.


Silly
Quote:
I don't mind KoD being dead
but of the people that I wanted dead he was really the least scummy of them

given the events of early D2
alt is really sus
plus I'm pissed at him for ruining my amazing plan


That's just what I dredged up from a quick search. At best I am the only person, as I said, to have asserted Alt being town. Neither you (Silly) nor others were keen on viewing Alt as town for what he did (ex. Arrgh went on to later say Alt's claim was plausible, but he was hesitant to necessarily believe him. Neo ended up voting Alt).

So yeah. What you got on that front other than not recalling things correctly?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. Regarding trusting me -

By "done nothing" I assume you're referring to me not taking any actions or participating in conversations to game sol -- oh wait.

I am trying to game solve. More than you or Alt are since I'm actually participating in conversations, heavily, while actively progressing trying to solve the game state based on what is happening while you two act silly (though you being self makes that understandable if a threat to the town).

I guess you must mean me not taking any actio -- oh wait. I purposefully jailed us here with the intent of isolating PK and you (on the assumption you were mafia). Gee, guess my actions are taken to help the town as well.

Well gosh, I just can't figure out what you mean here then since I've actively done more (including dying against my will). What have you or Alt done? Let's see: You outed PK, you didn't tell us about your survivor win con, and you flipped on viewing me as town despite your own mechanics regarding PK (even though you reference his changing of win cons too). Let's see Alt has -- killed me. That's about it. Well that and stop PK from voting.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3. Regarding PK affecting win cons and me having town's best interests in mind -

We beat this to death Day 3. You conceded there was a very small chance I was not town; however, you are still content to treat me like a threat. Part of that is referencing PK's ability to change win cons even though Fred had just tried to kill PK D3 and failed because he obviously used an ability to protect himself (an ability he shouldn't have given what you conveyed to us, but hey you haven't been entirely accurate in telling us everything in detail). But nevermind that. Fact remains that in order for PK to change my win con he'd have to expend loyalty to change my win con for X amount of days, yet he ended up protecting himself so he obviously didn't do that. He couldn't have changed my win con while I was dead and we know he didn't rez me because of how his abilities work (which you attested to).

So really the whole PK excuse you throw out there is a dead horse.

The only reason I can see for you to care so much for me dying is because I was actively pursuing your death. It certainly isn't because I'm aligned with PK (since nothing concerning that lines up).

So yeah. At the end of the day there's no reason to not view me as town or not have town's best interests in mind. Don't believe me? Contrast what I've been doing/arguing with your unwillingness to claim self thereby causing an issue with whether or not JD is being honest. If, as Rag said, your win con is a survivor orientated one (prior to coming into the Dungeon), that would heavily point to you being the self player in the game. That then directly contradicts JD claiming to be the self player with 2 votes. But hey, you didn't bother to counterclaim JD at all (ie. you didn't bother to help town).

So truly who is it we shouldn't trust? Me? Or you?

Side Note regarding your win con: Your win con was affected by my use of the ability Enter The Dungeon. I asked you about the consequence should you not win (but you disregarded) since all of us should have a boon (for winning) or a consequence (for losing). Each boon and consequence seems tailored to our roles (take my example and PK's example regarding losing). It stands to reason then that your win condition would change possibly for losing. Or maybe it changes as your boon. Or maybe your entire role is affected by this in the sense that you'll no longer end up as self, but as town or maf depending on winning or losing (which I think would be an odd design so I doubt that is the case).

In either case, the only win con affecting ability is PK's that can continually be used. What has happened to you is a one-time thing so playing it off as a normal part of the game is reckless and misdirective of you.

Side Note 2: People have trusted me, but then some of those people have done 180s on what they think. Alt is a classic example of this given how he's acting here despite everything that's been argued and pointed out. You, to a lesser extent, are an example of this only concerning your view of me. Pretty much you haven't fleshed out any concrete reason why I wouldn't be town that actually holds viability, but rather you've decided to push back against me and likely because I've been advocating your lynch. But, as far as you are concerned, it hardly matters now as you've clearly demonstrated to be detrimental to advancing town's cause in your inability to be clear and detailed as well as your tendency to be vague when it comes to answering important questions (like whether you are self aligned). Also Fred had my back, and he turned up as town so obviously someone was leaning towards supporting me.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


4. Concerning you being confirmed self or mafia -

Did you forget why I brought you here in the first place? It was prior to Rag having revealed the copped results on you.

My current view of you is that you are self and JD is maf; however, when talking about you to Alt, I illustrated my view of you (many times) to him, referenced those views, then plainly stated he's trusting you (a confirmed self or someone who is maf) over me. Really though it hardly matters as you clearly don't have town's best interests in mind. And don't bother throwing a PK excuse out there since everyone is interested in PK, not just town.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5. Concerning Fred -

The only one who pushed for Fred were you, Rag, and JD. Rubik defaulted to Fred, I think, when PK didn't go through (or maybe Rubik stayed on PK, I'm unsure from D3). Either way, Fred's death is devastating because Fred was clearly playing in a town manner wherein he had an obvious progression concerning what he was doing. JD, a self proclaimed self at the time, actively has pushed many absurd reasons to keep various people on the table for consideration for lynch without actively trying to game solve players that should be game solved.

But that's just my opinion since, you know, someone just swung a lynch instead of waiting for the day to just go on so we can get back into the game.






All I can say is you better hope that I die because if I don't, then I guarantee you I will make sure you don't win.


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 Post subject: Re: THE DUNGEON
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:12 pm 
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Also

Vote: Alt

Assuming I'm still in the game, that is where my vote is going now.


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 Post subject: Re: THE DUNGEON
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:22 pm 
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@Neo:

Please vote Alt. He doesn't have town's interests at heart given his actions here.


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