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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 2:26 am 
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In my opinion y'all are fine. And since the rules state you can ask me about the rules we good. <_<

I find myself at a loss at getting started. So I'm going to jump on the claims wagon. I have no active or passive abilities. Looks like it's going to be classic trolling this game for me.

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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 2:27 am 
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For clarification, @Hello World:
Paraphrasing anything in your role PM is punishable by Modkill? :wha:

I did read the rules; must have glossed over that part.

Though, that's a pretty heavy punishment for something that is usually a-okay. I would have bolded and super emphasized that rule...

Anyway, if I am to be modkilled, so be it. :bored:


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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 2:28 am 
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15377 wrote:
In my opinion y'all are fine. And since the rules state you can ask me about the rules we good. <_<

I find myself at a loss at getting started. So I'm going to jump on the claims wagon. I have no active or passive abilities. Looks like it's going to be classic trolling this game for me.

Not giving numbers any active or passive abilities is a huge oversight, IMHO.


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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 2:44 am 
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Sorry copypasted that rule, if someone wants to paraphrase their role it should be fine.(I'd have sworn I had removed all mentions of number in that post)


Last edited by Hello World on Mon May 04, 2020 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 2:44 am 
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@Tevish: I don't want to elaborate too much, but let me just say that I have information which implies exceptions to that pattern.

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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 2:55 am 
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Aaarrrgh wrote:
@Tevish: I don't want to elaborate too much, but let me just say that I have information which implies exceptions to that pattern.

My role flavour implies that stupid crazy humans want to bond with explicitly evil spirits. This is story flavour, though, so not necessarily indicative of anything mechanical or alignment.

If Tevish is hunting Ghosts and Vampires, it's not unreasonable to assume the Ghosts are evil spirits, but how do Vampires fit in? Are Vampires the "stupid humans who wanted to bond with evil spirits"? Cuz that's not traditionally how you make a Vampire...

All of this is speculation, based on paraphrased lore. Really just conjecture. Take grains of salt with your Vampire slaying garlic, everyone.

My role does specifically imply that losing one's Humanity is Bad with a capital B, though. Like, the whole Village will suffer if we don't find a way to stop stupid Mafia aligned players from bonding with evil spirits. Is what's implied. In my role pm. And stuff.


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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 4:31 am 
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That clear implication that there are evil undead does not by necessity mean all undead are evil. Also, the concept of bad guys wanting to bond with spirits implies that there are scum who are not currently undead. So I don't see where my logic could be faulty.

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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 6:28 am 
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#notAllUndead

I'm going to remark that tevish's statements lines up with the information I have been given to work with, most notably the implied abilities to kill, so I'm going to assume his statement is largely correct until I have reasons to believe otherwise. I'm not going to discount that tevish is making a gambit from a position of greater knowledge, which is the type of plan I would expect from someone who exclusively designs cards for stax and pox archetypes, but at least for now I consider his presence in the game a net positive.

I'm not going to enter the miller debacle. If your policy doesn't validate a statement like "my role interferes with the result of investigation abilities used against me", then your policy is stupid, and I believe you'd prefer your policy to not be stupid. That said, I don't entirely buy into the frustration you're trying to sell me. I'd probably be okay lynching you, as much as it would pain me to give up on KoD.

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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 7:26 am 
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from what ive seen zinger usually plays like this and both uses and is limited by his nlp so i dont think theres much more to be read past 'investigates on him may be unreliable'

incidentally does anyone have any role info on where in the hotel things are happening?


This may not be helpful for you, but my role implies things are happening inside hotel, as opposed to outside of it.


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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 7:35 am 
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My lore implies weird things are happening that sortof meshes with what everyone else is saying, so I'm inclined to believe Tevish's claim as well. My post doesn't mention Ghosts or Vampires though, but instead mentions Mummies. So this may be one convoluted mess, although one or more of these supernatural beings may just be a red herring, as Tevish said before too.

I'm not a fan of going down the rabbit hole over what type of miller Zinger is willing to admit to being. Getting him to say something that is not protected by his NLP does nothing for us since we can't trust what he is saying. I'm inclined to lynch Zinger now over the miller claim, since it would be easy for scum to claim a miller role and skate by since no cop (if there is one) would waste a role on a claimed miller.

---

On Aarrgh's claim, given the claims that are out there and my role, I don't think there is anything wrong with what he said. I am comfortable with the claim that not all undead are scum, and that scum may not necessarily be undead.


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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 10:08 am 
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hmm i see i see
i don't really have much to go on in terms of game flavour, just that something spooky is happening; i do have in general where it's happening though and i wanted to see if anyone else was similar

to be fair i don't really think that we should put too much stock in the flavour of the game, but i thought it would be interesting to take a look at anyway and it might give us a better idea of our gamestate

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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 10:29 am 
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A Miller claim isn't going to let anybody skate by. The opposite, in fact; without being subjectible to an investigation that means behavior is more key, not less, in ascertaining the claimed players alignment. So with Zinger going to be under a larger microscope with nothing to actually hide behind, suggesting we Lynch him now because of the exact opposite is probably the most suspicious thing we've seen in the game so far.

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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 11:32 am 
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Just remembered this game started.

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I feel decently good about Zinger, based on his claim.


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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 11:33 am 
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Ragnarokio wrote:
and i'll start this game again by putting forth the possibility of a mass claim. I doubt there will be enough people interested to make it happen but i think it could be a good way to get the game moving right from the start

No.


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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 11:38 am 
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JayDreven wrote:
FoS: Naga

A Miller claim isn't going to let anybody skate by. The opposite, in fact; without being subjectible to an investigation that means behavior is more key, not less, in ascertaining the claimed players alignment. So with Zinger going to be under a larger microscope with nothing to actually hide behind, suggesting we Lynch him now because of the exact opposite is probably the most suspicious thing we've seen in the game so far.


don't see how lynching a claimed miller is suspicious as you are saying it is. Yes, behaviour is more important in someone who can't be investigated. On the other hand, if Zinger is indeed scum we've let scum live and use whatever roles they have for however many days. I Putting Zinger under the microscope will also suck the oxygen out of the game where every day the miller would be the focus, until Zinger eventually dies. My point was we could solve it today by lynching Zinger.

I did say "lynch now", but I didn't really mean "now" (or else I would have voted). I meant that I think this is probably sufficient reason to lynch. The day is long and I'm in no rush.


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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 12:45 pm 
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But in Zinger's case, he can still be investigated. If he's investigated and comes up town, he's scum.

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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 1:23 pm 
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Aaarrrgh wrote:
But in Zinger's case, he can still be investigated. If he's investigated and comes up town, he's scum.


Well any miller can be investigated, but the point is that miller is a big warning sign to a cop "don't investigate me" since the results can't be trusted. That's why I say he can't be investigated.


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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 2:19 pm 
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I've a question, for those who will entertain me
on a scale from vanilla to tutti frutti, how conventional do you see the game as, based on your role information? I want to say that my role is pretty basic, more so than I expected going into this game (tbh I was kind of disappointed), but at the same time it doesn't feel to me like it would fit a normal mafia game. of course I'm a newbie so take that with a grain of salt, I doubt any of the few games I've played could be considered conventional, but there are some aspects of my role that make me go "but why though?", and having some level of expectations would be nice going forward
not to mention that supposedly there is some secret rule maybe triggering halfway through the game which I guess will just have to happen if it happens. from the flavor of things it sounds like people we lynch aren't actually killed and instead just confined to a limited number of rooms, so maybe it relates to that, but I'm getting off track

tl;dr: I'm pistachio flavored, what kind of ice cream are you?

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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 2:35 pm 
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@Tevish:

The passive info explicitly mentions the existence of at least two hostile groups. Your role info is immediately believable to me, and others giving their two cents on the subject leads me to believe that more than two hostile groups could certainly be possible. Inherently, with the possibility of more than two groups, numerous players would have to be hostile.


Given Zinger's progression on the topic of the claim/NLP, I'm fairly confident he'd be an ok lynch. This is based strictly on the activity and how Zinger conducted himself wrt to his claim. That is, claiming "type of miller" initially helps him not lie. Focusing the conversation on a classical miller only helps push, in my opinion, the perception he is that. As Sloth said, there is a lot of WIFOM around it; however, as I have said, Zinger is pedantic with his policy so it is no accident he initially worded his claim the way he did. Everything else, I'm confident, was by design.

Outside of Zinger, and reviewing past posts, Arrgh doesn't strike me as bad over questioning the theory proposed about undead. While flavor may be an indication of bad things, I have nothing to suggest (one way or another) what kind of groups the hostiles are. So, as far as I am concerned, it could be that or a mix or something else entirely if flavor plays a role at all.

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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 3:32 pm 
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You know what, I am going to go out on a limb and say Zinger is town.

His claim created a lot of WIFOM, based on how it was done, but looking back through his posts I'm starting to understand the thought process a bit more. He also drew a lot of attention to himself early on, which scum don't usually want to do. Zinger is somebody worth keeping an eye on for shady behaviour later, but for Day 1 I think it's best to leave him alone.

Which begs the question, who do we go after instead? My vote is still on Rubik, and while he did finally show up, his responses seem really lazy. Based on his response to Zinger's claim, though, I kind of get the impression he didn't thoroughly read the last few pages, which honestly makes me lean more town than anything. Still not a fan of his lazy responses, but I'll wait to see what he says later as the game picks up.

Unvote

The discussion about undead creatures is intriguing, but as my own role PM doesn't mention them, I don't think flavour discussion is going to be overly productive. Seems to me that the flavour is important for some people but not for everyone, and for that reason discussing it is only going to benefit the people it is relevant to.


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