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 Post subject: [MH2-ICD] Damn
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 1:11 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: [MH2-ICD] Damn
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:11 pm 
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Every YMtC person has thought of this card, so it's nice to finally see it printed.

It's definitely more pushed than I thought it would be. Usually being flexible makes cards cost more.

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 Post subject: Re: [MH2-ICD] Damn
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:54 pm 
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I suppose it can't hit hexproof creatures, but I'd call it an upgrade to Wrath Of God.

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 Post subject: Re: [MH2-ICD] Damn
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:49 pm 
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TPmanW wrote:
I suppose it can't hit hexproof creatures, but I'd call it an upgrade to Wrath Of God.

Overloaded cards don't target, so this is just as good as Wrath of God when cast for . It really is just a better Wrath of God.

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 Post subject: Re: [MH2-ICD] Damn
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:25 am 
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TPmanW wrote:
I suppose it can't hit hexproof creatures, but I'd call it an upgrade to Wrath Of God.

Overloaded cards don't target, so this is just as good as Wrath of God when cast for . It really is just a better Wrath of God.

Yeah I ... read that really really wrong I guess.
Whelp, goodbye WoG. Wonder how much this card'll cost me now. Edit - $20

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Cato wrote:
CotW is a method for ranking cards in increasing order of printability.

*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

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 Post subject: Re: [MH2-ICD] Damn
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:14 am 
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Libe wrote:
Every YMtC person has thought of this card, so it's nice to finally see it printed.

It's definitely more pushed than I thought it would be. Usually being flexible makes cards cost more.


It also wont be Standard or Pioneer legal, so it actually seems pretty tame compared to other 1 and 2 cmc spot removal in Modern and Legacy.

Also, it's kinda interesting they went with White for the Overload instead of Black ... wonder if this suggests Damnation is too much of a stretch in black's color pie.

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 Post subject: Re: [MH2-ICD] Damn
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:34 am 
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I think it's more for the cute reference that it's got the White, as well as for the sake of going "See guys, different colored overload" than strictly "Yeah see not Black"....maybe


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 Post subject: Re: [MH2-ICD] Damn
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:37 pm 
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Maybe they were afraid a mono black version would have gone in too many decks, leading to a less diverse format. Making it different colors means that it is only good in decks that can get double black and double white.


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 Post subject: Re: [MH2-ICD] Damn
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:54 pm 
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Perhaps they found it amusing to illustrate the difference between "damn" and "god damn"?

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Cato wrote:
CotW is a method for ranking cards in increasing order of printability.

*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

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 Post subject: Re: [MH2-ICD] Damn
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:46 pm 
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I don't think it's really mysterious why they would go with the white overload. It's the most clever version, it shows how changing the scale of the spell can change its color.

Word of God
Sorcery
Target player draws two cards.
Overload :w:


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 Post subject: Re: [MH2-ICD] Damn
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:40 am 
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I don't think it's really mysterious why they would go with the white overload. It's the most clever version, it shows how changing the scale of the spell can change its color.


i feel like this is the sort of thing that wizards R&D would probably not care about ultimately. cards that showcase design principles in clever/subtle ways are only really appreciated by people who are both familiar with those design principles and interested in design itself, which probably describes a mostly negligible amount of players.

I think the most obvious reason to use white instead of black is balance concerns combined with thematic desires. If they want the alternate mode to cost 4 mana to be consistent with WoG/damnation but don't want the card to be too strong then flipping the mana costs is an easy way to make it a little weaker. I wouldn't be surprised if it started at 2BB (because damn -> damnation is a much more thematic card) but development thought it was too strong and they decided 2WW was more thematic than 3BB.

thats just my guess though, doubt we'll ever get a definitive answer.

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 Post subject: Re: [MH2-ICD] Damn
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:46 am 
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neru wrote:
I don't think it's really mysterious why they would go with the white overload. It's the most clever version, it shows how changing the scale of the spell can change its color.

Word of God
Sorcery
Target player draws two cards.
Overload :w:


Except Damnation already exists (albeit originally from Planar Chaos), and black already gets conditional sweepers like Toxic Deluge, Languish, Consume the Meek, so it wouldnt be out of the question for a black Day of Judgment to exist.

Having said that, this might be a good question to bring up to MaRo from a design perspective as then there would be an official answer

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 Post subject: Re: [MH2-ICD] Damn
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:51 pm 
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Ragnarokio wrote:
i feel like this is the sort of thing that wizards R&D would probably not care about ultimately. cards that showcase design principles in clever/subtle ways are only really appreciated by people who are both familiar with those design principles and interested in design itself, which probably describes a mostly negligible amount of players.

This is literally the set for that. That is the whole premise of Modern Horizons sets. They are concepted as Time Spiral sets, sets that are about being clever and quirky in ways that the usual premier sets cannot. Modern Horizons 1 is where Smiting Helix and Twisted Reflection are, which are cards whose whole point is just to point out interesting things about the color wheel. MH2 even pulls a Planar Chaos and colorshifts Yawgmoth's Will into Gaea's Will as part of a cycle that is about suspending classic OP cards.

Except Damnation already exists (albeit originally from Planar Chaos), and black already gets conditional sweepers like Toxic Deluge, Languish, Consume the Meek, so it wouldnt be out of the question for a black Day of Judgment to exist.

Having said that, this might be a good question to bring up to MaRo from a design perspective as then there would be an official answer

The point is not "Black cannot get Wrath of God"; it's that "White can get Wrath of God but not Murder."

This exact card has been posted a million times in various custom card forums. Like Libe said, "Every YMtC person has thought of this card, so it's nice to finally see it printed." I am honestly confused why this card is confusing.


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 Post subject: Re: [MH2-ICD] Damn
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:00 am 
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@neru

? Im really confused what you are getting at with your first point in response to me. The Murder effect is black, yes, but the Damnation effect could also be black as opposed white ... and since card is black itself (much like how Smiting Helix is). And that is my point; why did they decide it was better to go to a second color instead of just mono-color? Because while almost every YMtC person has done Destroy target creature with Overload, this is the first time I've seen it with an different color overload.

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 Post subject: Re: [MH2-ICD] Damn
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:12 pm 
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Because Wrath is the progenitor and is more iconic than Damnation. If they were looking for a reference, they got both rather than one.

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 Post subject: Re: [MH2-ICD] Damn
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:46 am 
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@neru

? Im really confused what you are getting at with your first point in response to me. The Murder effect is black, yes, but the Damnation effect could also be black as opposed white ... and since card is black itself (much like how Smiting Helix is). And that is my point; why did they decide it was better to go to a second color instead of just mono-color? Because while almost every YMtC person has done Destroy target creature with Overload, this is the first time I've seen it with an different color overload.


Because part of Modern Horizon is getting into design space they didn't or couldn't get into in standard sets with these mechanics, such as differently colored Overload. Like maybe there's some color pie stuff at work but imo focusing on that is a losing endeavor because it really is more about the design being neat.


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