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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:26 pm 
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"Bad decks". Sorry guys, no one gets to play Mardu, Jeskai, Grixis, 4 or 5 colour decks because if they don't match up to Moss they're bad.

Ridiculous statement.


Don't exaggerate, of course you can play those decks; I love playing those decks. You just don't get to expect to win every game when you play them (see 1.5), and you better be okay with losing to better decks - like ramp.

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DJ0045 wrote:

3) stop lying to yourselves about certain decks being easier to build or play, or I guess let me put that a different way: bad decks are hard to play, good decks are easy to play.


If you actually think certain decks are not easier to build or play , I'm afraid you really don't understand this game. "Bad decks are hard to play, good decks are easy to play" ? .... what a nonsense statement.


DJ0045 wrote:
4) stop expecting ranked play to be casual. That's absurd, of course people playing ranked are going to play decks that win. That's the whole point.


Actually in my experience ( and that could easily be an isolated event) Ranked has been quite casual. Even the Ramp decks that I face are sub par most of the time. I mean even my allies deck does well in ranked which really should not be happening if ranked was actually competitive.


I'm pretty sure I understand this game as well as most. Good decks are easier to play because you have access to better choices. That's all I mean by that, and it's absolutely true.

I can't speak to your experience, but I just wanted to make it clear that spikier decks should be expected from Ranked play. It's more an answer to people calling other players mosstards, or getting mad when they encounter a lot of ramp decks featuring moss. It's what they should expect to see, and plan for as best as they can.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:53 pm 
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Spikier? Thopters is a Spike deck. Moss Ramp is Timmy's wet dream.

Also, way to talk past people's point. Yeah, if they'd decided to add Ancestral Recall, Time Walk and Counterspell to the starter pack for the lulz I guess players would just have to man up and deal with MUC being "the best deck". No, I'm not comparing Moss to those cards, I'm highlighting the point you repeatedly fail to address.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:06 pm 
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otrisk wrote:
Moss Ramp is Timmy's wet dream.


The best control deck in the META, and you are calling it Timmy. I find that really strange.

otrisk wrote:
Also, way to talk past people's point. Yeah, if they'd decided to add Ancestral Recall, Time Walk and Counterspell to the starter pack for the lulz I guess players would just have to man up and deal with MUC being "the best deck". No, I'm not comparing Moss to those cards, I'm highlighting the point you repeatedly fail to address.


I didn't realize I'd done that. I feel like I accurately described the decks that Moss beats, and I feel like I did a decent job of stating why it beats them. Moss is extremely OP against decks that ignore that moss is in the META - like for instance, any 3 color deck that has no mana fixing, insufficient lands, and a mid-range game plan.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:22 pm 
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DJ0045 wrote:
otrisk wrote:
Moss Ramp is Timmy's wet dream.




I didn't realize I'd done that. I feel like I accurately described the decks that Moss beats, and I feel like I did a decent job of stating why it beats them. Moss is extremely OP against decks that ignore that moss is in the META - like for instance, any 3 color deck that has no mana fixing, insufficient lands, and a mid-range game plan.


That's not a deck, DJ...that's dinner.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:48 pm 
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Kryder wrote:
DJ0045 wrote:
otrisk wrote:
Moss Ramp is Timmy's wet dream.




I didn't realize I'd done that. I feel like I accurately described the decks that Moss beats, and I feel like I did a decent job of stating why it beats them. Moss is extremely OP against decks that ignore that moss is in the META - like for instance, any 3 color deck that has no mana fixing, insufficient lands, and a mid-range game plan.


That's not a deck, DJ...that's dinner.


You two make me sick. I'm done with this forum until the DLC comes out. You guys can have fun jerking each other off about your 1337 MLG moss skillz. You think it somehow makes you 'good' bc you can play a deck that can be piloted by a trained monkey.. I think it makes you part of the weak assed 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em' herd mentality. See you douchebags in late April.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:21 pm 
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You try playing this bad a card in a real format, and since you like to refer to modern, I'll do the same; you generally just die on the spot. t4 is massively important in modern, and often when the games aren't just won straight out on that turn, they are very often almost decided.


Fun fact: Moss is totally playable and good in modern. I randomly opened a stream by Frank Lepore (a recent pro tour top 8) on twitch.tv and he was playing a moss deck.
Turn 1 utopia sprawl, turn 2 stone rain, turn 3 Mwonvuli acid-moss, turn 4 inferno titan.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:31 pm 
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I bet the people complaining here will also complain about T3 Skyspawner T4 Thought Knot.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:43 pm 
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In this thread Kryder and DJ are making a ton of sense. I love that they got called douchebags! lol


Kryder, great job explaining the difference between most consistent and best. I try explaining that often to friends and have lots of trouble. Wagner did a really good job on one of his recent blogs trying to explain why RDW might actually be 'better' than Ramp but is way less consistent. I think a really good way to explain this is last year's Top 16 Tournament by Legend. Izzet Burn was clearly the 'better deck' but was WAY less consistent than Jund Midrange. Decks which are 'better' are actually better designed for best-of-three tournaments since when they win, they win BIG. But when they lose, they lose big. You're giving your deck 3 chances to win big and the likelihood that it'll happen twice is high. Whereas if you were doing round robin single-match, you'd be better off with a consistent deck like midrange and ramp.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:05 pm 
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DJ, why do you capitalize "meta"?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:15 pm 
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GFTL wrote:
DJ, why do you capitalize "meta"?


I think I did it once, and now my computer autocorrects it, lol.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:18 pm 
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mate if adding a few burn spells to your pile makes it control, then RDW is a control deck

Anyway, I'm the draw-go and mill type, decks with just a handful of win cons are the least of my problems. I'm not crying because my 4 color ally deck is unplayable or whatever, it's just... if your idea of a cool game is to play the same cards in the same order for a few hours everyday without even paying attention to what your opponents do because IT WINS THE MOST IN THIS JANKY META HURRR, I'll just shut down the app on you after a few matches of the same boring crap - and that's regardless of my odds. And, well, if that's your jam I honestly think it might be more healthy for you to find a reason to be proud of yourself in the real world.


Last edited by otrisk on Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:33 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:29 pm 
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The Panda tears are real in this thread, folks!

It is amazing what a 4cc sorcery does to grown men.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:35 pm 
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otrisk wrote:
mate if adding a few burn decks to your pile makes it control, then RDW is a control deck

Anyway, I'm the draw-go or mill type, decks with just a handful of win cons are the least of my problems. I'm not crying because my 4 color ally deck is unplayable or whatever, it's just... if your idea of a cool game is to play the same cards in the same order for a few hours everyday without even paying attention to what your opponents do because IT WINS THE MOST HURRR, I'll just shut down the app on you after a few matches of the same boring crap and, well, I honestly think it might be more healthy for you to find a reason to be proud of yourself in the real world.


It's not just a few burn cards. It's often 10 burn cards (impulse, bolt, and firecraft), 3 rolling thunders, 2 Radiant flames, and 4 moss. When they add white, it's almost certainly 2 planar outburst, and possibly even more control cards. That's up to 23 cards already, and they are all control of one kind or another. It's a control deck, and as expected for control, it comes online t6 or later, has few threats, and aims to win the long game. (Come on RDW? are you even reading or thinking about your posts?)

As for the rest, I'm tempted to not even bother answering. I don't play moss decks much (although I wouldn't feel bad if I did), I just defend them, and I'm just as bored with the meta as you are. But I recognize my boredom for what it is: too much time since the latest expansion. I don't try to blame it on one card.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:42 pm 
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Did you guys know that salt is actually produced by harvesting and processing Moss ? ......... :D

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:43 pm 
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otrisk wrote:
mate if adding a few burn spells to your pile makes it control, then RDW is a control deck


I'm playing a Naya ramp with 7 board wipes (if we include rolling thunder). A deck with that much removal, draw, and tutoring can certainly be viewed as a control deck.

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@Megabeast, thank you for your valuable contribution to the thread. See you in April.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:43 pm 
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I've honestly never seen planar outburst in those decks but I'll take your word for it. The rest does count as a few burn spells.

My post had "if" in it to make clear that "you" didn't necessarily mean YOU, as I have no idea what you, personally, play or don't. Sorry if that wasn't so clear.

and, mjack: that it does.

I bet that kind of stuff is not near as consistent as the base GR Ramp is tho.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:54 pm 
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Acid Moss and Nissa's Renewal can both fetch :w: and :r: sources. Between that, the massive draw and thinning, running those color sources naturally, and the one Natural Connection I run instead of the 4th pilgrimage, it's very consistent.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:56 pm 
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otrisk wrote:
I've honestly never seen planar outburst in those decks but I'll take your word for it. The rest does count as a few burn spells.

My post had "if" in it to make clear that "you" didn't necessarily mean YOU, as I have no idea what you, personally, play or don't. Sorry if that wasn't so clear.

and, mjack: that it does.

I bet that kind of stuff is not near as consistent as the base GR Ramp is tho.


Naya ramp just went 16-5 in the iOS tournament. That's pretty consistent, it was the best record overall. Auunj will probably win the whole thing. And, IMO, that extra bit of control might have been the key to beating thopters in the last Xbox tournament.

What would you call a deck that runs 5 to 7 sweepers, 2 to 8 dedicated life gain cards, 6 to 14 card draw/advantage cards (more than that sometimes), and at least 4 targeted creature removal? It's got to be control, I can't think of anything else that would make sense here.

Anyway, we've strayed off topic. Sorry about that.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:01 pm 
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Yeah, I dunno, I haven't entered one of those tournaments yet. I think there are builds beyond RDW that could take Moss Ramp down a few notches but people want to play BW lifegain allies instead...

Which I guess is the thing. In a mostly casual meta, that stuff just comes off as tryhard and tiresome.

I've gotten to level 40 and hoarded 19000 coins playing stuff like esper control or UR counterburn and even jankier builds, so Moss decks everywhere seems kinda....pointless and facepalm-worthy.


Last edited by otrisk on Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:04 pm 
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otrisk wrote:
Yeah, I dunno, I haven't entered one of those tournaments yet. I think there are builds beyond RDW that could take Moss Ramp down a few notches but people want to play BW lifegain allies instead...

Which I guess is the thing. In a mostly casual meta, that stuff just comes off as tryhard and tiresome.


Fwiw, I beat a Moss Ramp (lacking control) deck with Dimir Crats 3-0 in that tournament. I hope I can do it again, because that's going to be my next matchup. Fingers crossed, CGB is never! an easy matchup.


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