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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:15 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
I'm not sure about Rakish Heir, I don't think it's good enough for three mana. I'd rather just play Bloodflow Connoisseur if we're playing three mana Vampires because she can eat the outdated Heroes/Neonates/Goblins for a permanent boost. I like Devouring Swarm because it has flying but do you think Bloodflow would be better?

I feel like all the best cards for this deck are in the three mana spot but we can only play so many of them because of the curve.

I need these cards.


Sac'ing wasn't a huge game plan/focus. It was more sub theme when it was present (Kalastria happened more on it's own by being aggressive than through sac). Swarm was a good repeatable 2(+)dmg in the air almost any time it was played but I can give Connoisseur a spin in its place.

If you were to make room for Rakish, where would you cut? I'd like to give it a spin to see how it preforms. I'm still thinking a deck like this would benefit from the additional pressure Raid Bombardment would create.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:18 pm 
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I think Swarm is better so that's why I chose it, I was just wondering what you thought about Connoisseur because you had played the deck.

About Rakish, I don't think it's good enough as I said, especially if you cut the Neonates which you seemed to be leaning towards. You would really need a critical mass of Vampires before I would even think about adding him.

I think Road Bombardment could be good here but again, everything seems to be in the three-mana range.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:19 pm 
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felbatista wrote:
This was meant to be only a first draft, but I actually went 8-2 with it very quickly, so I decided to throw it out here so you guys can help me improve it.

[manapie 90 -w -u b r -g][/manapie]

Vlad

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (24 :creature: , 15 :instant: , 21 :land:)

Cost 19 cards
■■■■
Guul Draz Vampire1/1
■■■
Coordinated Assault
■■■■
Deviant Glee
■■■■
Shock
■■■■
Undying Evil
Cost 17 cards
■■■■
Bloodcrazed Neonate2/1
■■
Bloodghast2/1
■■■■
Child of Night2/1
■■■■
Goblin Shortcutter2/1
■■
Hellspark Elemental3/1
■■
Kalastria Highborn2/2
Cost 3 cards
■■■
Rakish Heir2/2
Land21 cards
■■■■
Rakdos Guildgate
7
Mountain
12
Swamp


The lone Elemental feels super random, but I don't know what to put there. Maniacal Rage feels like a worse Glee (and Glee is spetacular, I have to say) with a marginal upside (another Shortcutter effect), which doesn't see worth it. Maybe Rabblemaster is the solution, but he feels a little slow for the deck (I know this sounds crazy, but so is the Neonate). I'm thinking Brain Maggot. I really like the card in aggressive decks.

Also, I would appreciate opinions on the mana base, both in amount and in ratio. Bear in mind that the deck is basically mono 2-drops, so think about that before suggesting something like Monk's RDW mana.

Thoughts?


so I have been playing this deck and made a couple of changes that are for better or worse more to my liking and enjoyment, I feel like its been playing a little better for me so thought i'd share my changes for ya.
-4 undying evil: its a great card and I really like it but on creatures with no etb effects, no evasion, are small to begin with I felt this spot was very underwhelming and under performing for what I wanted out of the deck which is to just constantly go for the face. I can see it comboing nicely with kalastria but how often does that happen.
-3 rakish heir: I really want this guy to be good and be awesome for the vamps but most of the time he doesn't. and at a 3 drop honestly I wanted to run the much better goblin rabble master.
-1 hellspark elemental cause I just didn't see the point in the singleton, I actually took him out before testing the deck so how he would or does perform I don't know it just didn't seem right to me.

+2 goblin rabblemaster: the best 3 drop for agro in red, simple as that and thus why I included it.
+4 brain maggot: this is such a great drop to stall the opponent from using a board wipe or removal on my important deviant neonates or deviant childs of nights. sure the removal could come later from a draw but being agro i'm all in right from the start.
+2 dead weight: its like another shock in most circumstances and I have always been a fan of the spell so I wanted to include it in the rakdos agro build.
+1 more land to go to 22 land count. im at 10B 8R and 4 gates

thanks for the deck its been pretty fun so far.

edit: I just wanted to mention that in a vampire theme deck kalastria is such a joy to play with. not a bad 2 drop aswell with upside on its own.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:31 am 
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The thing is, cards like Neonate/Heir/Child are there to be played together. The moment you cut one piece, the others lose significant value. You have to be sure the synergistic pieces, in this case, the vampire package, are doing things different enough and good enough together to justify them over cards that are better in a vacuum, like Rabblemaster. Otherwise, you might as well cut all of them instead of one.

That said, I'm back from a trip and ready to test this more. Actually, I'm surprised that someone is playing one of my decks. I always saw myself as the crazy guy that plays bad decks. Maybe you guys are crazy too :P

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:37 am 
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I agree. The issue with Vamps is that it was clearly put together like an old Duels deck when arranging the card pool. There's a tight 60 card version where everything plays off each other well, but unfortunately is a bit dull, and then there's stuff like Blood Tribute as optional extras if you want to have a bit of fun at the cost of being suboptimal.

Some of the cards have value alone in other builds. Guul Draz is great in aggro decks that get you to 10 life quickly, Bloodghast is great for sac decks, Bloodflow is great for Steal decks, Child is great for lifegain decks and Neonate is alright for some aggro decks.

Put them all together though, and there's not a lot of room to experiment, as while they all slot really well individually into other decks that support them, together they're only really the sum of their parts, and removing just one can weaken the deck as a whole.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:52 am 
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I think Kalastria Highborn is good enough on her own to allow Vamps to be a subtheme if you only give her minor support.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:14 pm 
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felbatista wrote:
Actually, I'm surprised that someone is playing one of my decks. I always saw myself as the crazy guy that plays bad decks. Maybe you guys are crazy too :P


nah, you had it right

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:10 pm 
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felbatista wrote:
The thing is, cards like Neonate/Heir/Child are there to be played together. The moment you cut one piece, the others lose significant value. You have to be sure the synergistic pieces, in this case, the vampire package, are doing things different enough and good enough together to justify them over cards that are better in a vacuum, like Rabblemaster. Otherwise, you might as well cut all of them instead of one.

That said, I'm back from a trip and ready to test this more. Actually, I'm surprised that someone is playing one of my decks. I always saw myself as the crazy guy that plays bad decks. Maybe you guys are crazy too :P


yea I get that. and I try to play other decks that are contributed here but with so many its difficult especially if I find one I enjoy I could end up playing it for a week. and within a week usually 3-5 more decks have been posted so yea you can see how I can never test them all. I suppose I can try rakish heir again but removing rabblemaster is like pulling out a nose hair, I just have to do it quick and shed some tears after.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:21 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
I think Kalastria Highborn is good enough on her own to allow Vamps to be a subtheme if you only give her minor support.


But then, you're not using the card at it's full potential. It's a super mana intensive card that you need the upside to justify it.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:46 pm 
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But if using it at its full potential means playing subpar cards like Neonate and Rakish Heir, then I'm not sure that's better. I'm playing it in WB and even a single trigger is a nice bit of reach while also putting counters on my Ajani's Pridemates, which is a stronger two-drop than you'd get with sticking solely to Vampires, I think.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:03 pm 
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That's exactly my point. So far, the deck is working well, so I'm having an easy time justifying the vamp package.

BTW, I just replaced the singleton Elemental for an Act of Treason. Feels like an useful out that I can hope to draw. I'm also thinking about replacing some number of Undying Evils for Brain Maggots. I also sense a little swap in the mana base coming. I feel I need more Black sources. Will test those in my next session.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:12 pm 
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Update your list after your next bout of testing and I may give the all-in Vamps a shot. I'm skeptical, but willing to try it out.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:21 pm 
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I put some time into the vampires last night to see what worked and what didn't. First I tried getting the most mileage out of Bloodcrazed Neonate and Rakish Heir.. trying to clear the path for them. I went into Grixis for draw, shock and disruption. I could clear the path for them fine.. but it didn't push through enough damage. It ultimately sucked.

Next I went into mono red, hoping to clear the path with spells and enchantments. That worked a little better.. but Rakish Heir was still crap. Bloodcrazed Neonate with Lightning Talons, Furor of the Bitten, or Galvanic Arc was a thing though.. and the whole thing powered the hell out of Rockslide Elemental. Satyr Hoplite also made that list.. and was good.. so was Rabblemaster, but Shortcutter underperformed. Red Paragon was pretty bad.

The deck that consistently won vs everything was mono black. Kalastria Highborn gave good reach, which also synergized with Sanguine Bond. Guul Draz was average.. he solved a stalled board, but he is worthless before Intimidate goes online. Child of Night was just a 2 mana shock with Highborn but did 6 with Bond out. Most of the time I won bc of Sanguine Bond/Blood Tribute. I hit that combo in 6 out of 8 games.. but I won every game. Phyrexian Rager and Graveborn Muse got me to the combo fairly consistently. Black Paragon was a stud.. he tilts the field massively in your favor, and his ability to give deathtouch was significant vs resolved bombs. But.. I must reinterate that Sanguine Bond and Blood Tribute make the deck. Together, its an autowin.. Bond alone gives you great reach.. Blood Tribute without Bond gets Guul Draz and Bloodghast ready to finish. I think Lilianna's Spectres and Dead Weight finished off the list.

I think its a deck worth further exploration.. I know I'll be playing it more. But yeah.. those red vamps require so much of the deck to be built around them to even stay alive more than one turn.. which is fine if the damage output justifies it.. but its just not there.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:21 pm 
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mono black does seem like a good idea, I really want to play and enjoy blood tribute so il have to give that a try. brain maggot is so good. and combo with undying evil is awesome, I don't mind that its a 1/1 that is mostly never going to attack, to be able to look at opponents hand and take something from it is soo good. I play them in the vamp deck, I removed undying evil though as I felt it wasn't needed.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:18 pm 
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Hi nga,

Brand new here. Took a big interest in this forum after leaving paper magic due to time contraints and began starting to play DotP to stay connected to MTG. Decided to get into deck building again, hope I can contribute.

Here's my take of Rakdos Vampires, trying to stay low to the ground but do immense damage quickly. So buffing cards like Bloodcrazed Neonate early with Furor of the Bitten sounds real good. We also can easily pump up our Vampires easily with Coordinated Assault and Deviant Glee. On top of that Undying Evil gives us some recursion as well and synergizes with the subtheme. With the all the targeting, I feel Agent of the Fates is a perfect compliment to the removal suite. Banefire finishes off the list giving us extra reach when we stall in late game.

As mentioned above somewhere, Kalastria Highborn can definitely be the key card when supported. In my testing I found Rakish Heir to be disappointing at times but I have no idea what to replace it with. I am thinking Tormented Hero or Liliana's Specter but feel maybe the tribal isn't too bad.

[manapie 90 -w -u b r -g][/manapie]

Rakdos Vampires

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (16 :creature: , 22 :instant: , 22 :land:)

Cost 22 cards
■■■■
Guul Draz Vampire1/1
■■■
Coordinated Assault
■■■■
Deviant Glee
■■■
Furor of the Bitten
■■■■
Shock
■■■■
Undying Evil
Cost 8 cards
■■■■
Bloodcrazed Neonate2/1
■■
Bloodghast2/1
■■
Kalastria Highborn2/2
Cost 6 cards
■■
Agent of the Fates3/2
■■
Rakish Heir2/2
■■
Tribute to Hunger
Cost 2 cards
■■
Banefire
Land22 cards
■■■■
Rakdos Guildgate
6
Mountain
12
Swamp


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:02 pm 
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titan wrote:
Hi nga,




um...

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:02 pm 
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Oh wow.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:05 pm 
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titan wrote:
Hi nga,

Brand new here. Took a big interest in this forum after leaving paper magic due to time contraints and began starting to play DotP to stay connected to MTG. Decided to get into deck building again, hope I can contribute.

Here's my take of Rakdos Vampires, trying to stay low to the ground but do immense damage quickly. So buffing cards like Bloodcrazed Neonate early with Furor of the Bitten sounds real good. We also can easily pump up our Vampires easily with Coordinated Assault and Deviant Glee. On top of that Undying Evil gives us some recursion as well and synergizes with the subtheme. With the all the targeting, I feel Agent of the Fates is a perfect compliment to the removal suite. Banefire finishes off the list giving us extra reach when we stall in late game.

As mentioned above somewhere, Kalastria Highborn can definitely be the key card when supported. In my testing I found Rakish Heir to be disappointing at times but I have no idea what to replace it with. I am thinking Tormented Hero or Liliana's Specter but feel maybe the tribal isn't too bad.

[manapie 90 -w -u b r -g][/manapie]

Rakdos Vampires

A one vs. one deck for Magic 2015.

60 Cards (16 :creature: , 22 :instant: , 22 :land:)

Cost 22 cards
■■■■
Guul Draz Vampire1/1
■■■
Coordinated Assault
■■■■
Deviant Glee
■■■
Furor of the Bitten
■■■■
Shock
■■■■
Undying Evil
Cost 8 cards
■■■■
Bloodcrazed Neonate2/1
■■
Bloodghast2/1
■■
Kalastria Highborn2/2
Cost 6 cards
■■
Agent of the Fates3/2
■■
Rakish Heir2/2
■■
Tribute to Hunger
Cost 2 cards
■■
Banefire
Land22 cards
■■■■
Rakdos Guildgate
6
Mountain
12
Swamp


Hello and welcome!

I think the Rakish Heirs should go because they are slow, expensive, and frail. They also are a total nonbo with Undying Evil if you want to keep that element in your deck.

You are missing Goblin Rabblemaster, the card is insane in an aggro strategy.

I also think the Tribute to Hungers should go, and I also think you should be playing Child of Night if you're insistent on the Vampire plan.

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Last edited by Hakeem928 on Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:13 pm 
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titan wrote:
Hi nga,




um...


I love you. :)

On topic: I think the vamps need at least Blood Tribute to be viable winners on an aggro plan. They are just so easy to shut down with tougher creatures. Lord effects were huge for me in mono black.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:18 pm 
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titan wrote:
Hi nga,




um...

I literally lol'd :lol:


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