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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:25 am 
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The funny thing is it's just a matter of time before this discussion is forgotten, and we see the obligatory "Hey check out my cool new deck using Triumph of Ferocity."

The card IS that good, you just have to build around it. And since it's 3 copies, you actually CAN build around it.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:33 am 
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DJ0045 wrote:
The funny thing is it's just a matter of time before this discussion is forgotten, and we see the obligatory "Hey check out my cool new deck using Triumph of Ferocity."

The card IS that good, you just have to build around it. And since it's 3 copies, you actually CAN build around it.


The deck I posted on the main.page did pretty well. Still waiting.on mjack for his evaluation.. which I'm sure will be to destroy it since he probably won't play it.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:05 pm 
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Hi guys. Again thanks for the suggestions to my Aura deck, and I am happy it has created some discussion. I still hold Triumph is a good card in my deck. For instance:
Turn 1: Spire Tracer
Turn 2: Ordeal of Heliod
Turn 3: Triumph of Ferocity

Oh noes, it looks like my opponent is playing red or blue or black or white and might have removal.

Turn 2: Wandering Wolf
Turn 3: Triumph of Ferocity
Turn 4: Primal Huntbeast
Turn 5: Ethereal Armour,Nimbus Wings, Ordeal of Heliod all on the Huntbeast.

Wooly Throctor is a great card, but my deck doesn't even run him.

I am not using Triumph to dig out bombs, besides maybe to find my hexproof huntbeast. It's also useful for land draw in a land light deck, or more auras!

Edit: Usually in the second case, the two power Wolf is enough to start drawing turn 4. This engine usually draws cards. It might not help me win games I am completely screwed in, but it certainly helps me win close games, more than another creature or aura anyways.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:29 pm 
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Ethereal Armor is the best argument for the card I've seen so far.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:02 pm 
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DJ0045 wrote:
The funny thing is it's just a matter of time before this discussion is forgotten, and we see the obligatory "Hey check out my cool new deck using Triumph of Ferocity."

The card IS that good, you just have to build around it. And since it's 3 copies, you actually CAN build around it.


The deck I posted on the main.page did pretty well. Still waiting.on mjack for his evaluation.. which I'm sure will be to destroy it since he probably won't play it.


5 games in so far with this deck. The deck works pretty well itself, but I feel like Triumph still isn't worth it.

Of the 5 games, 2 of them I didn't see Triumph at all (a quick win against a Jund Devour deck, and a quick loss against a Boros Tokens deck).

Of the 3 games I drew into it, 1 was against a 5 color control list. Went Paladin>Thoctar>Triumph>Battledriver>Thoctar. Opponent went Shock>Banefire for 4>Tribute to Hunger>Planar Cleansing>Obelisk. Triumph literally didn't draw me a single card :V

1 game was against a Mono :u: list, Anger>Triumph seemed cool, until they proceeded to bounce my creature every turn to buy time and shut off Triumph. By the time I got to draw off of it, I already had 6 cards in my hand, and was ahead on life by a good margin. Triumph drew me a total of 4 cards over the entire period of the game, one of which was a second copy of Triumph, ugh.

The third game was against a Grixis control list that nuked pretty much everything I put on the table. I drew a late game Triumph followed by a Stomper, which drew me another 3 creatures. Not sure which way to go on this one. The extra cards certainly helped, but I am relatively certain the unanswered Stomper could have gotten there on its own without the extra support provided by Triumph draws.

I know 5 games is a stupid low sample size, I plan on playing quite a few games with it again later and I will report back then with a larger data point.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:09 pm 
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In the game against the 5 color control list.. I doesn't sound like Packleader would have drawn you any cards either.

Against mono blue.. this is where Triumph's mental game shows. Now your opponent blows all their control trying to keep you from drawing cards (and getting their face smashed).

Against Grixis.. it sounds like it made sure you won the game.. instead of you 'maybe' winning the game without more gas.

If you were replace it with another draw card.. what would it be? Bident? I could see Bident's Forced Attack mode being really good in some.matchups.. but it.makes the mana worse.

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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 1:16 am 
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My efforts to build a hexproof huntbeast deck that incorporates Triumph basically failed. The deck could be glorious when it got the right cards in the right proportions but it was pretty inconsistent. A hexproof huntbeast drawing you extra cards thanks to triumph and burning your opponent with the 5 mana red aura is awesome.

Speaking of 5 color control, my 10+ game winning streak ended at the hands of . . . TRIUMPH OF FEROCITY. Yes that is right. I lost to a mediocre monogreen build because he resolved Triumph on turn 3 . . . of course this was not the only reason, I was terribly mana flooded and also couldn't find any of my card draw. My opponent also attempted to cast Kozilek 2 turns in a row, I had the counters but the advantage of drawing 8 cards is ludicrous.

The card that really gave the advantage to my opponent in conjunction with triumph wasn't a huge fatty, it was elvish visionary. I had enough removal / counters for his big creatures, but he stuck a visionary on the board. I had to kill it. Then he stuck another visionary. I had to kill it too. At this point I had no burn for the arbor collossus he resolved.

I am not going to argue in favor of Triumph any more, but I thought this was an ironic twist to my recent success with my control deck and failure to make triumph work.


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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 1:29 am 
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The point of triumph = You 'had to kill' an elvish visionary.


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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 9:46 am 
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DJ0045 wrote:
The point of triumph = You 'had to kill' an elvish visionary.


Yup.

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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 11:39 am 
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For as much as I hate Triumph, it has beaten me in scenarios like this. But for every time it has beaten me there are probably twenty where my opponent tapped three mana and got absolutely nothing but a "You Lose" splash screen. I think Triumph is in the same league as Roil Elemental in the playability department. It has beaten me, sure, but most times I just Shock it, giggle, and move on.

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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 11:46 am 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
For as much as I hate Triumph, it has beaten me in scenarios like this. But for every time it has beaten me there are probably twenty where my opponent tapped three mana and got absolutely nothing but a "You Lose" splash screen. I think Triumph is in the same league as Roil Elemental in the playability department. It has beaten me, sure, but most times I just Shock it, giggle, and move on.


It takes more than one Shock to stop a Triumph of Ferocity permanently. But yeah.. I know it's not that good.. but I can make it work, bc I'm just cool like that. When it works, it's awesome..

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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 12:16 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
For as much as I hate Triumph, it has beaten me in scenarios like this. But for every time it has beaten me there are probably twenty where my opponent tapped three mana and got absolutely nothing but a "You Lose" splash screen. I think Triumph is in the same league as Roil Elemental in the playability department. It has beaten me, sure, but most times I just Shock it, giggle, and move on.


It takes more than one Shock to stop a Triumph of Ferocity permanently. But yeah.. I know it's not that good.. but I can make it work, bc I'm just cool like that. When it works, it's awesome..


I don't know why you're backing down right now, but this lunatic concept that triumph can be defeated by a single shock (or for that matter is easily stopped) shouldn't be supported. You may argue that there are better draw mechanisms, and I might agree. But not a lot of cards force your opponent to play to a certain style. That's a valuable thing. Because you can build around it.

Don't get me wrong, it's not powerful on it's own, but then again nor is young pyromancer - you have to build around the cards, because pyromancer isn't even a bear in a deck with no instants or sorceries.


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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 12:56 pm 
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If you're comparing Pyromancer to Triumph then I want a hit from your bong. :)

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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 1:19 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
If you're comparing Pyromancer to Triumph then I want a hit from your bong. :)


You probably need one after those asswhuppins you just took :evil:

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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 4:37 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
If you're comparing Pyromancer to Triumph then I want a hit from your bong. :)


You probably need one after those asswhuppins you just took :evil:


Lol.

Edit: btw, how did you miss my point on that comment? Let me spell it out, I was saying that even Young Pyromancer (one of the most OP cards in DotP) requires you to build around it.

I presume you don't run YP without any instants or sorceries.


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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 6:41 am 
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um sorry? YP is a better goblin piker and that card saw play so....


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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 8:53 am 
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um sorry? YP is a better goblin piker and that card saw play so....


Yeah, barely. Also, it's a goblin.


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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 3:28 pm 
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I haven't even seen a deck that doesn't have an instant or sorcery though so you will always have some small upside with YP


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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 3:41 pm 
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I haven't even seen a deck that doesn't have an instant or sorcery though so you will always have some small upside with YP


Fine, this is all a bit beside the point isn't it? I'm just saying that some cards require support. I used the obviously powerful YP as an example of a card that still requires support in order to make sense.

This is as opposed to cards like Baneslayer Angel that require 0 support.

Triumph can be built around, and gains value in the right kind of decks, that's really about it. YP is a less than bear in a deck with no instants or sorceries.


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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 5:11 pm 
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it's a wash, no?

Triumph has to have big creatures in the deck in order to come close to making sense.
YP should have your regular contingent of spells in order for it to make sense.

It feels nuts talking about these cards in the same post. Like you'd never talk about both ants and boots in some sort of analysis.*

*this Loki reference was brought to you by Marvel's Avengers: Age of Ultron. Come out in spades for this instalment of mediocrity.

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