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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 4:43 am 
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Like it

I disagree with the lack of Fieries...they work and help Chandra, who i like a lot...i'd. take out the Kors, the scouts and 1 firemantle...and put the last bully
and 2 impulses + 2 spires more :)

Thanks. I'm not sure about Chandra's inclusion in the first place and thus definitely don't plan to add cards only to support her. I still haven't seen a problematic creature on the opposing side that would die to Impulse.

ivardb wrote:

I'd take all the firemantles out as they are not that good without allies. And then keep in the scouts as they can let you push through the last damage.

You got your fair share of welcome greetings for this, but I don't consider this proposal that ludicrous. Also you might be one of those players unaware of the Menace mechanic, which I still see all the time on steam.

So let me explain it briefly: Firemantle's sole purpose is to squeeze in those last few points of damage by effectively reducing the opponent's amount of blockers to 50% rounded down. That usually allows more than 1 of your creatures to get through. But on the other hand, Unblockable by itself is better than Menace and the Sub Scout lets you target the Champion, who you could then buff with Titan's Strength for example. So while the Firemantle is usually more effective, the Sub Scout can hit (or at least instigate) the grand slam.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:39 am 
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Anyways I don't like knight of the white orchid in here, deck seems fine otherwise

Yeah. He is meh 75% of the time. But when he triggers, it was all worth it. It's probably a Timmy choice.
If I took him out, I might have to rework my mana-base to keep supporting Unified Front.
I've been considering 2x Relic Seeker, 1x Sigil of Valor, and 1x Slabhammer (great with Mortuary Mire). Possibly in place of 2x Knight, 1x Kytheon's Tactics and 1x Myr. In that case I'd also switch one dual land for an Island, I guess.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:13 am 
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Guy who posted the rough draft here. I love what you've done with the deck! I'm certainly going to give it a try. Adding the alternate Plains cards and the Mire to support the ally token generator is pretty brilliant, and also makes the Knights of the White Orchid value city. One of the best things about the original deck was that it was an aggro deck that thanks to the Knights was maybe even slightly better on the draw than on the play, and you've taken that to the next level. I think you've picked the correct allies to add as well.

I'm a bit suspicious of Tactics. It strikes me as a card that will seem awesome when it wins, but quietly be worse than a lot of other possible replacements much of the time. Have you tried Tactician instead if you wanted another anthem effect?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:02 pm 
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Thanks, random! I appreciate that you like my changes. It's my favorite deck at the moment. Go have fun with it!
Knight is probably the card I I'm thinking about the most. It always hurts, when you have to cast him without the trigger. That's why I try to hold him for as long as I can. When I said that he was bad 75% of the time, I meant that 25% of those I have to cast him without the trigger and 50% he just sits in my hand waiting to shine. Holding cards isn't necessarily a bad thing with this deck, though.
I'm definitely on the fence about Tactics, too. I was running out of ideas, so I went back to pre-BFZ for inspiration. I picked Tactics, since its cmc was below 4. But Tactician sounds a lot better, since it has synergy with valor, builds my board, and as a 3/3 he's huge.
Currently testing: -1 Tactics, -1 Myr, +1 Tactician, +1 Kor Bladewhirl


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:09 pm 
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Here is my take on the Boros Tokens list which I am doing some writing and video-o-graphing about -

http://www.hauntedflower.com/blogs/duels-diaries/

http://www.twitch.tv/covertgoblue/profile

1 x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
4 x Twin Bolt
4 x Perilous Myr
2 x Abbot of Keral Keep
4 x Dragon Fodder
2 x Pilgrim's Eye
3 x Chief of the Foundry
3 x Thopter Engineer
4 x Ghirapur Gearcrafter
2 x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
3 x Valor in Akros
3 x Retreat to Emeria
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
6 x Plains
9 x Mountain
2 x Clifftop Retreat
3 x Foundry of the Consuls
4 x Evolving Wilds


By the end of the video (spoiler) I make the adjustment to replace two twin bolts with two Reprisal.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:30 pm 
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Here is my take on the Boros Tokens list which I am doing some writing and video-o-graphing about -

http://www.hauntedflower.com/blogs/duels-diaries/

http://www.twitch.tv/covertgoblue/profile

1 x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
4 x Twin Bolt
4 x Perilous Myr
2 x Abbot of Keral Keep
4 x Dragon Fodder
2 x Pilgrim's Eye
3 x Chief of the Foundry
3 x Thopter Engineer
4 x Ghirapur Gearcrafter
2 x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
3 x Valor in Akros
3 x Retreat to Emeria
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
6 x Plains
9 x Mountain
2 x Clifftop Retreat
3 x Foundry of the Consuls
4 x Evolving Wilds


By the end of the video (spoiler) I make the adjustment to replace two twin bolts with two Reprisal.


Kind of surprised you aren't running Kytheon's Tactics in here.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:53 pm 
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Kryder wrote:
Here is my take on the Boros Tokens list which I am doing some writing and video-o-graphing about -

http://www.hauntedflower.com/blogs/duels-diaries/

http://www.twitch.tv/covertgoblue/profile

1 x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
4 x Twin Bolt
4 x Perilous Myr
2 x Abbot of Keral Keep
4 x Dragon Fodder
2 x Pilgrim's Eye
3 x Chief of the Foundry
3 x Thopter Engineer
4 x Ghirapur Gearcrafter
2 x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
3 x Valor in Akros
3 x Retreat to Emeria
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
6 x Plains
9 x Mountain
2 x Clifftop Retreat
3 x Foundry of the Consuls
4 x Evolving Wilds


By the end of the video (spoiler) I make the adjustment to replace two twin bolts with two Reprisal.


Kind of surprised you aren't running Kytheon's Tactics in here.



Pretty sure he's using Chief for that role. Which I'm not sure I like.

Can't believe you have to run Pilgrim's Eye to make the mana work. Also not sure what Myr is doing here.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:59 pm 
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Myr is insane with the Nalaars

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:50 pm 
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Nice one, Covert! Your list is definitely less cute than mine. ;) Looks very consistent and aggressive.

It's all about the Knight. If you include him, Unified Front becomes an option, as does running Allies. If not, running more artifact creatures is the way to go.

Your list has also convinced me to drop the Stonewakers for Myrs.

This Timmy tips his hat to the Spike. :hattip:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 7:37 am 
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My take on Boros Tokens...which is my Valor in Akros deck, but optimized to win (for example, without Valors, lol)

Watching how Pepy is doing well with Jeskai tokens, I can't help but feel that the Boros version is more consistent

1 x Kytheon, Hero of Akros

2 x Sigil of Valor
3 x Call of the Full Moon
2 x Abbot of Keral Keep
3 x Twin Bolt
2 x Reprisal
4 x Dragon Fodder

3 x Thopter Engineer
4 x Ghirapur Gearcrafter
2 x Kytheon's Tactics
1 x Exquisite Firecraft
2 x Lantern Scout

2 x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 x Akoum Firebird
3 x Retreat to Emeria
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

6 x Plains
8 x Mountain
2 x Clifftop Retreat
2 x Foundry of the Consuls
4 x Evolving Wilds
2 x Boros guidgate


I'm coming to appreciate Sigils in wide decks...and just discovered that with CotFM/Lantern scout (+ Gideon or Emerias) they become silly...a 8/7 trampling gobling isn't difficult at all. And the next turn, with lifelink...and if it gets killed, you don't mind, you have a lot of twins coming after him...

Tempted to change the Abbots for Stonewakers, will try

Yeah, I know, 14 plains are a bit low...but I don't want to screw my mana just for Gideon, I usually don't mind him coming in turn 5 or 6...and Tactics are a 6+ turn play...also, the 3º Foundry isn't there because of the anoying tendency of the shuffler to clog your initial hand with two or three of them if you have the 3 on the deck...


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 3:14 pm 
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Has anybody tried that^?

I'm tempted to call it tier 1, right after the gruulramp and not much more...

It's taking me flawlessly from the low 20's I droped to in the rank to... 34 I think I'm back right now...without a loss, and winning against ramp, elves, thopters, tempo...I'm kinda surprised


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2016 4:27 pm 
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okok, I'll try it

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:50 am 
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I'll give it a try but I see a Boros deck and my inner Timmy can't resist Flaring Flamekinning it.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:13 am 
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I tried it in comparison with CGB's version above, and CGB's version felt more consistent. Part of this is it simply has more creatures, so there is less chance of drawing pump or special abilities when what you really need is more attackers. If my strategy is to go wide and team pump, then I want to make sure I am always able to go wide even if I get swept.

I was also not a huge fan of the Sigil/CotFM combo as it feels too cute, too all-or-nothing, and too fragile to enemy removal. CotFM+Sigil means you are gambling your whole turn's worth of damage against the opponent not having cheap removal before your Sigil trigger resolves. If he does, sure you lose an expendable critter, but you also lose the time/cards to cast Sigil, equip, and aura, and most importantly you accomplished nothing, leaving the opponent one turn closer to his next sweeper. Sigil feels out of place here; it seems better suited to decks which are more geared to value / combo plays, like Crats, which generally play a bit more like control and don't necessarily expect to be swinging with the team all the time.

Not to suggest that CGB's version is perfect or anything; if you aren't a fan of Valor for instance I'm sure you could make modifications to it to suit your style. Or you could draw some ideas from it, and trade away some of the cute plays from your version to get a bit more consistency.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:10 am 
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Last night I had sigil and call on firebird, it was really fun. I like how retreat to emerias options make it better to make ally tokens using this strategy

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:00 pm 
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Maggit, I'm 6-0 so far with your deck. Lots of fun

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:39 pm 
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Maggit, I'm 6-0 so far with your deck. Lots of fun


:)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:43 pm 
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I'm almost at 6k gold thanks to that thing. I'm going to play it more tonight. Let's see how deep I can go with this streak...

My records are Beast's old temur deck where I went 25-0 or something sick like that. Or Hakeems very old Boros Auros where I did something ridiculous like 42-0 and I asked him for some playing tips on going wide or tall and he responded, " u tell me." lol

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:48 pm 
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ZedF wrote:
CotFM+Sigil means you are gambling your whole turn's worth of damage against the opponent not having cheap removal before your Sigil trigger resolves.


Well, you don't do that if you expect a Reprisal or other removal, you wait until he's tapped...and it's very diffucult that you can't rush your opponent if he plays control and leaves the mana untapped, doing nothing...maybe that's the problem, that you are playing it like classic thopters or RDW...when it's not any of the two...sweepers don't worry me in the slightless, if your game crumbles upon a sweeper, you are doing it wrong, mate... ;) On the contrary, Valor is the one that forces you to play all your creatures...a big mistake, just for those sweepers

What I find it can clog my hand and play is drawing just Valors/Emerias...which happens when you have 6 of them...

Remember, that one began as my Valor deck...if I have removed then form the list, it has been with the utmosts reticency and only because that has proved (to me) to be more effective...I have been trying to make Valors work since I had the first... :P


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:03 pm 
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I would tend to think that Emeria + Kytheon's Tactics would tend to clog one's hand just as frequently as Emeria + Valor, but like I said if you prefer Tactics to Valor, I won't argue with you on that score; they each have advantages.

What I tended to find when I was testing was that, for this type of deck, there were few situations where having Sigil + CotFM actually helped the win. In theory they help you get through a big blocker, but in practice just bum-rushing and firing off a team pump tended to work just as well or better. I found that for an aggressive wide deck, I would rather build the archetype to play closer to thopters than have to wait until the other guy is tapped out in order to aura and attack, especially when if you use sigil on an expendable token, just 1 red mana left open can ruin your whole turn.

I agree that if you are going to use Sigil + CotFM, you need to play it more slowly like a combo deck -- so in that case I would rather build the deck to be a combo deck like Crats, and not rely so much on aggression and team-pumps. Having both in the same deck feels like the deck has a split personality. :)


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