It is currently Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:04 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 398 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 20  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:53 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 30, 2013
Posts: 7305
Location: England
Abzan Decklists


Black Cards


Green Cards


White Cards


Multi-Colour Cards


Colourless Cards


Non-Basic Lands

_________________
Welcome! I'm Garren and I'll be your designated villain for the evening.


Last edited by Garren_Windspear on Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:38 pm, edited 9 times in total.

Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:05 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 09, 2015
Posts: 244
ENCHANTMENT.DEC

This deck will be the biggest challenge I believe for someone to break wide open. Especially since we do not have Starfield of Nyx and even if we did, it'd be only a one of due to mythic rarity. You will see some enchantments at a card count of only one of each and for a reason. If anyone here has played old school Oath morphling decks or any other deck with reliable tutoring then you will know what the term "toolbox" means and that is exactly what these one ofs are. I won't bother with a manabase yet until I see what ppl think of the premise of the deck itself.

1 MANA
1xKytheon, Hero of Akros
3xElite Vanguard

2 MANA
2xHerald of the Pantheon
2xEvolutionary Leap
4xDivine Favor
1xNimbus Wings

3 MANA
3xElemental Bond
4xHeliod's Pilgrim
1xLiliana, Heretical Healer
2xAuramancer
3xBlood Cursed Knight

4 MANA
1xSuppression Bonds
1xNecromantic Thirst
3xBlightcaster

5 MANA
2xSigil of the Empty Throne
1xTotem-Guide Hartbeest

6 MANA
2xKothopod, Soul Hoarder

KEY INTERACTIONS
Usually, Auramancer is a terribad card, but here it's part of a key to give the deck some stability and abuseability. Necromantic Thirst (toolbox card) is a one of so i can get creatures back, so with Evolutionary Leap out i can sack Auramancer on purpose to do the survival effect then attack with a guy with necromantic. Sigil of the Empty Throne will work awesome with Herald of Pantheon for draw. I dont have any actual draw spells in deck but with this combo and hopefully a kothopod going I will be in cards. I dont see many decks in this format abusing Kothopod very well with the blatant lack of life gain. This very fact is why the odd 4 copies of divine favor and hopefully using them over and over. Also, Blood cursed knight and Herald of Pantheon will help keep life high.

Biggest weakness is probably Angelic Edict on Necromantic Thirst but hopefully ppl will be so baffled by the numerous things going on they wont realize the detriment this single card provides. Also, tragic arrogance could screw me so hopefully I am not ignorant with the deck build I have put forth and welcome any and all input. I challenge all to come up with competent enchantment deck lol. I've seen numerous people claim it's impossible. Thanks.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:29 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 09, 2014
Posts: 260
Ramp Deck 1.0


2 x Gather the Pack
4 x Gatecreeper Vine
4 x Perilous Myr

4 x Nissa's Pilgrimage
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 x Liliana, Heretical Healer

2 x Languish
3 x Juggernaut

2 x Outland Colossus
3 x Conclave Naturalist
2 x Gilt-Leaf Winnower
2 x Hixus, Prison Warden
2 x Tragic Arrogance

2 x Kothophed, Soul Hoarder

2 x Nissa's Revelation
2 x Gaea's Revenge

6 x Forest
2 x Plains
3 x Swamp
4 x Evolving Wilds
2 x Orzhov Guildgate
2 x Isolated Chapel
1 x Sunpetal Grove
2 x Woodland Cemetery


The goal of this deck is to turn Nissa's Revelation into a card the reads "Scry 5, Draw 4 cards, gain 4 life" most of the time, and "Scry 5, draw 6+ cards, gain 6+ life" the rest of the time. If I can do that then there isn't a single deck out there that can compete with me in terms of value. I'm taking advantage of the fact that our counterspells are so poor even control decks won't run them a lot of the time, and if I'm facing a counterspell heavy control deck they shouldn't have any answer to deal with a Gaea's Revenge in the first place.

Regarding the manabase, I run 22 lands, 15 green, 11 white, and 13 black. 15 Green should give me a single green source in every opening hand, meaning I can essentially count Gatecreeper Vines as trilands for the purposes of finding me my third land onwards. 22 Lands should be enough to give me a 2 land hand every game counting our free mulligan, but with testing the land count might change. I don't want to go too heavy on land though, because Nissa is going to fetch me a forest, and Nissa's Pilgrimage is going to fetch me two forests each time I cast it. I should have enough forests to cast two Nissa's Pilgrimmages per game before I run out of forests, and since I never need more than 7 lands casting the third and fourth pilgrimages seems superfluous anyway. I can save them to discard to Liliana. If it turns out my forest count is too low I'll have to rework the manabase a bit.

The deck runs 26 creatures to make sure we don't miss with Gather the Pack and Nissa's Revelation. Many of the creatures have come into play effects allowing them to serve similar roles that spells would. Gilt-Leaf Winnower is our targeted removal. Hixus is a board wipe. Conclave Naturalists serve as artifact and enchantment removal. Many of our creatures fetch land. It's for this reason that I felt Gather the Pack is a worthwhile inclusion. Gather the pack can dig through five cards to find us whatever sort of creature we need, it should be a decently powerful tutor effect. After we cast a few spells it can find us two useful cards as well.

With Hixus, Tragic Arrogance, and Languish, we should have a fair shot against aggressive decks, but the real reason I'll be testing this deck is to steamroll all the slow decks with unparallelled value.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:47 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 15, 2013
Posts: 677
Gather the pack is a bit of a conundrum - it wants you to run both a lot of creatures and a lot of spells. Evolutionary leap might work better here.

I can see you getting very good value out of nissa's revelation here.

The card I find most questionable is juggernaut. I guess it works with nissa's revelation but I would rather see creatures that can block here. Corpse hauler can trade early game, late game you can upgrade him to your best fatty.

I am also not sure about 22 lands, I haven't had time to dick around with the manabases in game but evolving wilds is NOT as good as a triland. 2 trilands will completely fix your manabase color wise, 2 evolving wilds will only get you 1/3 of the way towards a fixed manabase. I also think you want at least 1x selesnaya guildgate and 1x golgari guildgates as targets for gatecreeper vine.

Edit - it appears Spencer edited his list while I was posting.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:09 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 09, 2014
Posts: 260
If I already have green to cast gatecreeper vine, there's an extremely high chance I won't need the vine to fetch another green source. The deck runs 15 green sources from the land itself, Nissa, who fetches a basic forest, and 4 Nissa's Pilgrimages which fetch 2 forests each. I only really need 2 green sources total, and I need to keep my basic forest count high for my ramp spells. I can't afford the green guildgates. I mean in the worst case scenario I just fetch a basic forest with my creeper or cast a second creeper to find green later on.

Evolving Wilds is certainly not as good as a triland, but I only need double colour sources in each of my colours and I run a ton of duals and gatecreeper vines. I think I'll test it as is for now and work on it if I run into issues.

Evolutionary Leap is an interesting suggestion, but I'm not really using Gather the Pack for value. (The deck doesn't need any more value). I'm using it more as a tutor to find me the creature I need when I need it. Sometimes I will need a Hixus, sometimes I will need artifact or enchantment destruction, sometimes I will need a Gatecreeper, and sometimes I will need the biggest fatty possible. I think that looking through my top 5 will give me a decent selection since I run so many damn creatures. It's no Green Sun's Zenith, but it's the best I've got. If I get the spell mastery it's just upside. I can certainly test Leap though, or just replace Gather with something else entirely. Maybe I'll need more land after all, who knows.

Juggernaut is a bit of a worry for me as well, especially since it's the only artifact in the deck (that I actually want to live) and enables my opponent's artifact destruction cards. Like you guessed it's in there mainly as a fatty for Revelation, but also so I have a play on turn 4 if I don't get my pilgrimage. I have about a million 5 drops in the deck, so I don't need him to block for very long. As long as he holds down the fort until I can get 5 mana he's done his job, and I probably want him to start attacking. I'd be up for replacing him if I don't need him for Revelation, but he brings me from 13 4+ power creatures to 16 creatures, which is really significant. If he doesn't work out like I'd hope he's certainly up for cutting as well. I would want a creature with respectable power at least if I do replace him, so maybe something like Deathbridge Shaman? Alternatively I could go with 3 Fleshbag Marauders and swap the 2 Gather the Pack for 2 Cruel Revivals. Fleshbags with Gatecreepers and Perilous Myrs seems solid.

Edit: Yeah I have a bad habit of changing my mind as soon as I post stuff and rewriting it. Sorry about that, I should really just hit the preview button. Another suitable replacement for Juggernaut could be swapping a swamp for a plains and playing Kytheon's Irregulars. 4/3 is quite good for a 4 drop in the set, and it has the tap ability and renown as upside. It makes my manabase harder to work with since I usually want to be fetching black from my first evolving wilds and gatecreeper vines, but I do like the upside.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:21 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 12, 2013
Posts: 1292
Spence, I've played with your deck five times online, and all five times have been wins for me. It's honestly quite great thus far. The most dangerous form of victory has come against aggro, where this deck takes a few turns to set up, however playing smart, not casting Korthoped when low on life, and choosing the appropriate targets to burn with the Myr helps a ton.

Juggernaut actually is a very useful card, as there is land destruction in the meta, he's still castable even when our lands get blown up.

_________________
Who needs good grades when you got SWAG?!?!


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:32 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jul 21, 2014
Posts: 507
Looks ok, might work, good job. Probably weak to blue decks. Gaea's Revenge is strong, but it takes a few turns to get out and without trample it isn't the biggest threat ever. It also might be susceptible to colour screw due to double costs in 3 colours.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:40 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 05, 2013
Posts: 2803
Location: Brazil
I recommend using at least two more lands and since you are getting so many lands Zendikar's Roil might be good idea in the place of the Juggernaut.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:49 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 09, 2014
Posts: 260
I recommend using at least two more lands and since you are getting so many lands Zendikar's Roil might be good idea in the place of the Juggernaut.


To people who are suggesting lands: I believe that 22 lands is enough for me to count Gatecreeper Vines as lands themselves. If I count Gatecreeper Vines as lands then the deck runs 26 lands, and I should have 3 lands every game without missing a land drop. That means I can count Nissa and Nissa's Pilgrimages as lands, for a total of 33 mana in the deck. A lot of that land is fetched, so my chances of drawing land drops slightly every time I use one of my fetches, which is exactly what I want. I get a lot of mana every game, and getting that mana thins my deck of excess mana so I'm less likely to flood out in the late game. I don't think adding lands will help with anything but fixing. In fact the deck runs a bit more mana than it needs.

I get the feeling Zendikars Roil is a bit slow for the deck. I'm durdling until turn 4-5 every game anyway, so I want my high drops to be high impact when I play them. If I run out of gas I restock with Nissa's Revelation or Kothophed. The Roil just makes my Revelations worse. Not to mention the fact that my Nissa's Pilgrimages are dead cards in the late game when I run out of forests, so I won't have much more mana than an average deck once I get to the point I can cast Roil.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:58 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 05, 2013
Posts: 2803
Location: Brazil
Spencer wrote:
To people who are suggesting lands: I believe that 22 lands is enough for me to count Gatecreeper Vines as lands themselves. If I count Gatecreeper Vines as lands then the deck runs 26 lands, and I should have 3 lands every game without missing a land drop. That means I can count Nissa and Nissa's Pilgrimages as lands, for a total of 33 mana in the deck. A lot of that land is fetched, so my chances of drawing land drops slightly every time I use one of my fetches, which is exactly what I want. I get a lot of mana every game, and getting that mana thins my deck of excess mana so I'm less likely to flood out in the late game. I don't think adding lands will help with anything but fixing.


To reach 7 lands as fast as possible, the ideal is to use as many lands as possible, 22 might work, but you are slowing yourself unnecessarily.

Spencer wrote:
I get the feeling Zendikars Roil is a bit slow for the deck. I'm durdling until turn 4-5 every game anyway, so I want my high drops to be high impact when I play them. If I run out of gas I restock with Nissa's Revelation or Kothophed. The Roil just makes my Revelations worse. Not to mention the fact that my Nissa's Pilgrimages are dead cards in the late game when I run out of forests, so I won't have much more mana than an average deck once I get to the point I can cast Roil.


While I agree about roil, Juggernaut is clearly out of place in this deck.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:03 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 09, 2014
Posts: 260
To reach 7 lands as fast as possible, the ideal is to use as many lands as possible, 22 might work, but you are slowing yourself unnecessarily.
.


I think the opposite. I spend all of my early turns fixing my mana with Gatecreepers and ramping my mana with Pilgrimages so I have the colours I need and the amount of mana I need by turn 4-5 when I want to start playing threats. If I didn't care about getting the requisite amount of mana as fast as possible I would use Read the Bones instead of Pilgrimage and more actual lands in the base deck.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:28 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 09, 2014
Posts: 260
Gegliosch wrote:
Looks ok, might work, good job. Probably weak to blue decks. Gaea's Revenge is strong, but it takes a few turns to get out and without trample it isn't the biggest threat ever. It also might be susceptible to colour screw due to double costs in 3 colours.


Colour screw is the other issue here. I'm bending over backwards to include a total of 4 white cards in the deck. The white cards are amazing with what I'm trying to do, but if I was strictly green/black I could probably afford Erebos's Titan and some more proactive plays early. If splashed blue instead of white I could add cards like Bounding Krasis, Possessed Skaab, then put in the Fleshbag Marauder/Cruel Revival package and only need a single blue source, which is far easier than double white.

The reason I feel this version is slightly superior is because the most prominent aggro decks should be Elves and Thopters, and single target removal can't ever keep up with their tons of free tokens. On the other hand those decks are slightly slower than your basic RDW, so I should have time to set up for my more powerful board wipes.

The renown theme decks and RDW/goblins are such low power in this set that I can afford to ignore them a little bit. They will probably be my worst match-ups, but since they lack really amazing stuff to do early I don't think I'll auto lose to them.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:59 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 31, 2013
Posts: 7345
Location: Newfoundland
Fleshbag/Revival is pretty cute, but in the absence of more good zombies you're basically just playing Flesh to Dust. I think Marauder's playability depends on the meta, but I wouldn't automatically jam Revivals in my decks just because I have three Marauders.

_________________
Check me out on YouTube


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:21 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 09, 2014
Posts: 260
Hakeem928 wrote:
Fleshbag/Revival is pretty cute, but in the absence of more good zombies you're basically just playing Flesh to Dust. I think Marauder's playability depends on the meta, but I wouldn't automatically jam Revivals in my decks just because I have three Marauders.


Flesh to dust isn't the worst removal in the set even without upside. Flesh to dust that sometimes draws you another removal spell is premium removal.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:49 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 09, 2014
Posts: 260
I just had Archernick test out the deck vs AI to see how it ran, and the opening turns were indeed clunky like I'd expect, spent almost entirely fixing mana. For this reason the Juggernaut and Myr were quite good, being able to be cast no matter what sources of mana we ended up finding early. Nissa's Revelation and Gather the Pack were quite good every time they were played, and Tragic Arrogance/Languish did a good job of keeping us from getting overrun.

The problem we had was that in the late game our win condition was "swing with large creature, play out another large creature, hope for the best." Our big creatures don't have trample, so even when we establish dominance over the board it still takes us far too long to win.

We actually lost 2 games out of 4. The first time the AI played an Outland Colossus with Rogue's Passage up, and swung in a few times while chumping our our own fatty. We had a Gilt-Leaf Winnower, but she doesn't affect monsters with even stats. The second loss we played a Kothophed and had complete control over the game, but the AI managed to chump for long enough that Kothophed's passive eventually killed us.

Although the engines in the deck do work extremely well, being limited to one spell per turn and our lack of trample was a glaring weakness. I'll be working on changes to make the deck play more smoothly and close out games faster. My first thoughts are these:

1. Add a 2 of Reprisal so we can play multiple high-impact spells per turn in the late game, and so we have targeted removal that affects things like Outland Colossus, Kothophed, ect.

2. Add at least 1 Rogues Passage so that once we get a 12/12 or an 8/5 or even a 6/6 we can't be chumped into eternity.

Any thoughts?

P.S. I think I'll try building an alternate version of this deck running Red over White in order to close out games faster. Chandra's Ignition is less reliable than Tragic Arrogance, but red offers many ways for me to push damage though easily.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:46 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan 17, 2015
Posts: 486

_________________
Watch me club seals (and by "seals" I mean Magic n00bs) - https://www.twitch.tv/covertgoblue

My deck box on Magic Duels Helper - https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckbo ... tGo%20Blue

My YouTube channel - https://www.youtube.com/c/DanielCovertGoBlueWagner

Love to HolyCrap_WOTF for the badge

Image


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:12 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 28, 2013
Posts: 3141

_________________
Characters:
Hexion


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:01 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan 17, 2015
Posts: 486
Thanks again storyteller!

_________________
Watch me club seals (and by "seals" I mean Magic n00bs) - https://www.twitch.tv/covertgoblue

My deck box on Magic Duels Helper - https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckbo ... tGo%20Blue

My YouTube channel - https://www.youtube.com/c/DanielCovertGoBlueWagner

Love to HolyCrap_WOTF for the badge

Image


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:51 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 31, 2013
Posts: 7345
Location: Newfoundland
EDIT: Don't play this deck. :)

I'm going to try playing control in these colors. Here is my first attempt, going to be playing this all night after the kids go to bed:

2 x Woodland Cemetery
2 x Isolated Chapel
2 x Sunpetal Grove
2 x Golgari Guildgate
2 x Orzhov Guildgate
2 x Selesnya Guildgate
5 x Forest
4 x Swamp
4 x Plains

4 x Gatecreeper Vine
3 x Runed Servitor
2 x Herald of the Pantheon
4 x Reave Soul
2 x Celestial Flare
1 x Evolutionary Leap
1 x Shadows of the Past

4 x Read the Bones
1 x Solemn Offering
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer

4 x Suppression Bonds
2 x Languish

3 x Zendikar's Roil
2 x Sigil of the Empty Throne
1 x Angelic Edict


Okay, some notes on the choices, all theory at this point:

Gatecreeper Vine - I think we need this guy for the mana-fixing and he's fine fodder for Evolutionary Leap.

Runed Servitor - I initially didn't have this guy in the list, but I was looking for some lifegain to offset Read the Bones and settled on Solemn Offering. I added Servitor as a back-door target for Offering that is also good against an aggressive deck. It's also good with Evolutionary Leap. We'll see how it plays.

Herald of the Pantheon - This guy was also added mainly because I was looking for little bits of lifegain, but since we're on an enchantment gameplan the mana discount is obviously relevant. Suppression Bonds for three mana is excellent value and "ramping" into one of our five-mana wincons a turn earlier is obviously pretty good. He also makes it possible to cast Sigil and activate it on the same turn for two mana less, which is significant.

Reave Soul - Kills a large percentage of the creatures in the format.

Celestial Flare - Anti-Gaea's Revenge tech that can also hit a Primal Huntbeast or some other foolish nonsense. Also allows you to chump-check with your little guys and destroy something if they block.

Evolutionary Leap - Let's find Nissa! Lets upgrade Gatecreeper Vine! Lets upgrade Servitor and draw a card! Lets trigger Sigil of the Empty Throne! Lets sacrifice Roil tokens and turn them into real cards! This card is great.

Shadows of the Past - We'll be killing stuff, so the card selection is quite welcome. With ten creatures in the deck we should be able to gain a bit of life in protracted games, as well.

Read the Bones - One of the best card draw spells we have access to and we don't mind tapping out for it.

Solemn Offering - Some lifegain to offset the price of playing Read the Bones and a bit of hate for artifacts and enchantments. Pop your own Runed Servitor in a pinch to gain four life and draw a card.

Nissa, Vastwood Seer - Excellent control deck win condition. Draws cards, protects itself, and wins the game on its own.

Suppression Bonds - We have Reave Soul and Languish for the little guys, and this locks down everything else. Hits planeswalkers and turns off activated abilities of troublesome enchantments. Very versatile removal.

Languish - Do I need to explain this?

Zendikar's Roil - One of the decks win conditions. Arguably the weakest, but it will help you stabilize the board against aggressive decks just by hitting your land drops. Makes a late Gatecreeper bring a 2/2 buddy to the battlefield.

Sigil of the Empty Throne - The Big Boy. This is our main win condition and why we're on the enchantment plan.

Angelic Edict - One piece of hard creature removal that also can hit opposing enchantments. Achievement unlocked for exiling that indestructible Erebos's Titan.

_________________
Check me out on YouTube


Last edited by Hakeem928 on Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:49 pm, edited 5 times in total.

Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 2:30 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan 12, 2014
Posts: 597
@ hakeem - I like the idea of using the vines to fetch you your nissa or pantheons. worst case they grab another vine or servitor and just help thin the deck even more to help grab what you need. looks like it could be a fun deck look forward to the results.

_________________
Steam ID: TheTruStag
Time Zone: Eastern
Twitch : https://www.twitch.tv/the_tru_stag


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 398 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 20  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group