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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:05 pm 
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So it looks like there are some fun archetypes In RNA, I was listening to Lords of limited and the last Limited Resources and they have quite different opinions on some cards and colors but both and my self agrees that this Set presents a very complex limited environment... like no other I have the pleasure playing.
Cards that can be built around with some success are:
Image
So apparently this is one hell of a deck.. I did try it and went 3-3 with a bant pile so I can see an Esper or plain Azorious being very powerfull
The engine is quite simple and this deck takes Addendum to the next level, in Esper with some side life gain can be very puninshing
Cards that gain value are:
ImageImageImageImage

Other fun build around deck that its out there is the Cavalcade of Calamity
Image
Cards that gain value here are
ImageImageImage
+ every afterlife creature

Fun combo
Image+Image
Kill one creature and then ping another with deathtouch...then draw a card :evil:

There´s also the Gates deck that most people are now familiar with, so I will not address it.

---
I my self tried to draft this Cavalcade deck... I was initially trying to build one Orzhov deck... but I kept getting the pieces of the puzzle and I have just minutes ago listened to this podcasts.. sooooo

This is what I got...
Image

This still needs 5 cuts and maybe some swaps... I think there´s something solid that can be brewed here... but suggestions or debate is most welcomed as always!

PS: Apparently for LR, White is the worst color and for the Lords of Limited is Red...
If you got time for the any of them... they are both quite remarkable.

Limited Resources: RNA initial impressions
Lords of Limited: Gatebreaking the format

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:30 pm 
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I'd cut Spikewheel Acrobat, Ghor-Clan Wrecker, and Carrion Imp for sure. They don't contribute much to what the rest of the deck is trying to do. If in Bo3, Acrobat could sub in vs green decks to kill fatties on the block, and Imp board in situationally as well.

I'd prob cut Storm Strike, as you have a lot of 1 power creatures it won't help much, and no deathtouchers unless you combo w/ Bladebrand. The 5th cut maybe Dead Revels. I like a single copy in a lot of decks, but you don't have a lot of high value targets. I'd personally try to work in Thrull for a 6th cut.

One thing I'm skeptical of is the epic nonbo of Cavalcade and Absolution. Absolution is your best card (straight busted in limited), but it makes both your Cavalcades dead cards. No Cavalclades makes your Dragon Fodder Plus Pals worse, but not Bad cause they still feed Scavengers and buff swarm off Absolution. I like the fun idea of making Cavalcade a legit threat, but the deck might be better with those being cut.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:18 am 
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The deck was a flop.... I didnt even got to see Absolution :(
it was too slow... and wen 1-3 or something like that .... I´m very far from good results in RNA so far...
I drafted this... I think there´s a deck here .... this needs 12 cuts!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:09 pm 
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My cuts:

-Justiciar's Portal. I've been unimpressed wth the card even in decks that have good ETB effects, you don't even have that many of those and 2 Sentinel's Mark.
-1 Quench. 4 counterspells is too many, the second Quench is the worst one of them IMO because it basically guarantees a dead card in the lategame.
-Thought Collapse. Not a fan of Cancel in this format, especially if you have two better counterspells (IMO first Quench > Thought Collapse).
-Sage's Row Savant. You have too many 2-drops, this is the worst one of them IMO.
-1 Impassioned Orator. Still too many 2-drops.
-1 Syndicate Messenger. Worst 4-drop.
-1 Azorius Locket. Your curve tops out at 5 and the draw seems a tad too slow for your deck.
-1 Sphinx's Insight. The second one seems a tad too slow for your deck.
-1 Resolute Watchdog. You don't have that many great targets for it to protect and enough big butts that his Defender side is not relly needed.

I think these 9 cards would be cuts for me no matter what. The last 3 are more tricky for me.
I have 0 experience with or against High Alert and don't know whether it's any good; if it is your deck looks quite good for it though (2 Concordia Pegasus, 2 Senate Courier, 2 Azorius Knight-Arbiter and Spirit of the Spires all seem great with it).

If you want to keep High Alert, I'd probably cut the second Impassioned Orator, Ministrant of Obligation and one other card of your discretion (There's a few options there).
If you want to pitch High Alert, along goes one Senate Courier and one other card of your discretion.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:32 pm 
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My first nice run:
Image
Died at 6-2 to a topdecking acrobat helped by an epic mana flood, so 6-3. The previous two losses were rather one-sided though, to Orzhov go-wide and Radkos whatever Carnage. That card is a joke in limited, I almost splashed for it. Even thought about splashing the Absolution, but I thought the Gruul base was good enough and didn't want to risk losing to mana. Still did, but what can you do?

Opinions?

I was also disappointed to not wheel Sunder Shaman (picked the 2nd Trollbred Guardian thinking that a GGRR card should come back). And after 4 Drafts total, I wonder, if the bots rare-draft anything. Can't remember seeing a single Rare beyond pick1.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:43 pm 
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I would have run two more Mountains over the Island and one Forest.
Incongruity is an emergency card at best, the Steeple Creepers can get by without having permanent access to Blue, and you have a Simic Gate as well as an Open the Gates (which btw almost counts as land number 18 IMO, but with a rather high curve and Regenesis this is where you want to be IMO) for the emergency fix.
On the other hand, running any less than 8 Red sources seems criminal to me if you want to hit Red by turn 2 /turn 3 somewhat reliably.

Carnage is fairly bad as a splash IMO; the card is at its best if you can cast it on curve (later both players will be topdecking, making the card a lot less effective).

Looks like there was at least one other bot at the table drafting Gruul. That's actually fairly common as well; if you see basically any of the XXYY cards later than pick 5 or 6, you should consider movig in if you are at least in one of the colours.

The Rare power level in the set is fairly high; there's about 15 Rares or Mythics that are a better P1P1 than the best Uncommon (Mortify) and then there's another fairly big gap to the next best Uncommon. Also, most Rares are at least solid playables.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:27 pm 
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I wish I had a better run... but i´m stinking bad in RNA... I ended up going for High Alert coz was my original plan... I drew it 2 times in the early games and destroyed my opponent then I did not drew it when I have relevant attacks no more... lost to tilt one game, another on that stupid Owl that activates its ability when I´m trying to make my blocks... the other one was against one great deck and player...

This set is presenting very difficult to crac for me... My best drafts were Gruul and then one Dovins Acuity that felt rather solid but I mess up some details...
I think the set has very powerful Rares for sure but it also has lots of solid Commons and Uncommons... almost every Gold card is a C+
and there are some B+ in there also.

Too early for a tier list?

I would think that Gruul is rather good... despite of what the Lords of limited says... probably a B+

Orzhov when it comes together is a beast A+

Simic is also a beast A+

Rakdos... its not working so good for me probably a C

The High Alert flyers is rather good maybe a B
The Dovin Acuity is frigging great... if it comes together B+

The gates deck is rather hard to draft... when it works its a B+ but I haven´t being able to pull it off yet

Mill... I tried once on an Esper shell it crashed and burned maybe a C+

What I´m I missing?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:52 pm 
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Mill is best with High Alert. If you can draft the 0/4 mill walls, screaming shield, and High Alert - some other big butts and maybe a mill cancel or two, you will have a good run. I don't like mill without High Alert for two ways to win, but it's doable in a super grindy Orzhov/Esper build. Just like a C deck tho.

I think UW flyers is its own archetype without High Alert. I also think you can subdivide Rakdos into grindy control (one that packs a lot of removal, the black Afterlife and deathtouch creatures, and Inheritance - often Mardu rather than straight Rakdos) and aggro archetypes. Same with Orzhov- but it's more grindy-gum-up-the-board version vs midrange flyers version (often Esper). Gruul and Simic are more just one type of deck than the other guilds.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:53 pm 
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Did a bunch of drafts today, really enjoying this format at the moment. Had a couple of flops - a 1-2 and a 5-3 i think - and 3 nice runs.

First good run was Orzhov, went 6-3:

Image

I think I misdrafted a bit here, took the Battlements over a Mortify. No idea why I did that, but it was such a bad choice. Pretty sure I passed a second Thrull at some point too, which was almost certainly wrong. Bell-Haunt was amazing. Pontiff wasn't particularly good given how few afterlife cards I had.


Next nice run was a really nice Simic pile, again went 6-3 though.

Image

This deck felt really strong and should probably have gone to 7 wins. I lost one game to total mana screw, I had 2 mana on turn 5, lost a second game to not drawing a second blue source till turn 6-7 with a wizard lizard and collapse in hand and then lost the last game to a pretty bad misplay. Really fun deck though. I'm still not sure if I was ment to run all 4 simic gates here, it seemed to make sense given the double costed cards and how generally strong the deck looked if it could cast it's cards, but maybe I should have run less?

Last was an esper flyers attempt, finally hit the 7 wins.

Image
Image

I was a lot less optimistic about this list's chances, bit worried about mana and I'd really like more Chillbringers in this type of list. But it all came together pretty well. I got lucky in one game to have the perfect answer to a gate colossus just sitting in my hand. Was quite impressed with Precognitive Perception, bit slow for sure but it really put away a few games.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:04 am 
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All those look like solid drafts. UW/B flyers is a good archetype; not surprised that one got 7 wins.

I do think you ran too many gates in the simic list. In a 2 color deck without any gate payoffs, I wouldn't run more than 2 gates. Running more than that starts to diminish the value of staying in 2 colors through slowing down your speed of play. I agree with you in thinking it was a 7 win deck based on the spells.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:36 am 
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A couple cards I thought were pretty bad when the set was dropping, but have outplayed those initial expectations are screaming shield and the deathtouch kitty. Not trying to say they're The Best, but they're better than I thought.

Kitty is an impressive defensive piece for 1 mana. You have to hold up a black, but it helps you slow roll anyways. Like nobody wants to attack into you and trade down to a 1 mana creature, so the little kitten ends up holding off armies.

Shield has really impressed me as an alternate win con. I like it a million times better than mill stone. It mills one card harder, and late game you can start passing between creatures to get extra milling in. And the 3 extra toughness really helps you live long enough to mill out.

Here's a run from Numot. He starts off trying to force a mill deck, and it's all looking pretty bad until he rips a High Alert in the 3rd pack. The deck suddenly goes from D+ to B+. It would have been a solid A if he could have pulled a second Alert or not made so many poor picks (2 petitioners and drafting like 4 or 5 mill cancels) early trying to force mill. I stand by my prerelease comment that High Alert would be a good archetype in this set.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:22 am 
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Started aggressively raredrafting against better wisdom, but I've managed to stay above .500 through 5 drafts at least. That Orzhov deck is still my only 7 game winner. At 91 RNA rares/mythics without cracking any weekly/reward packs yet, feeling good about getting close to the full set.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:31 am 
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Just had the most absurd simic deck go 5-3 :( God it was such a good deck too - combine mage+familiar, 2 growth chamber guardian, 2 sauraform, a bunch of other adapt things, a troll and a sharktocrab. Deck did some absurd things and casually built huge creatures. By far the best simic deck I've drafted.

Every single loss was either mana screw or colour screw, 3 of the 5 wins were despite mana or colour screw. Stuff like that really make me dislike the game, guess that's it for me today.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:41 am 
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I'm also firmly in the "6-3 with bonkers decks" camp.

I'll go ahead and cobble together some of my thoughts on RNA draft into this post.

Format speed
Noticeably slower than GRN, but still faster than M19/DOM by a reasonable amount. Overall, I'd call it 'moderately slow'.

Guild / deck tier list
TL:DR: Simic >= Orzhov >= Gruul > Rakdos >= Azorius

IMO all of the guilds are very close in power level and provide a functional game plan.
Simic might be the best guild overall if it comes together; being able to play virtually any end of the midrange spectrum to pretty good efficiency.
Orzhov has access to the highest power level cards in general, but can have problems closing out the game quickly.
Gruul is the best aggressive guild, having ways to punch through damage even through mid-range boardstates (which are very common) while not being helpless in longer games thanks to access to big creatures.
Rakdos keeps most of Gruul's aggressive firepower and maybe has some more, but is more prone to running out of gas and thus in a worse position considering the midrange metagame.
Azorius is in the weird spot of wanting to be a tempo guild while having the Orzhov problem of not gaining enough closing speed. Most of Azorius' creatures just don't deal enough damage while not being big enough to block the bigger creatures.

I've excluded the Gates deck from this list; mostly because even if you're Gates, you're generally basing it off the most open colour/guild (most commonly Simic, but I have seen every guild bar Rakdos as the base) and need to find enough payoffs for it to be worth it. That said, it can be a deck.

The mana situation and splashing
In general, it's a bit easier to splash in RNA than in GRN; mostly because the format is a little slower while providing a similar amount of fixing. That said, due to the restrictive mana costs it's generally best to stay 2-colour if possible and only splash for an absolute premium card.
An exception is the Gates deck, which can splash anything given the correct gates/bombs, but that deck is somewhat tough to pull off IMO.
With the format being rather slow, I don't mind running up to 3 Gates in virtually any deck (aside from the most aggressive Rakdos decks, but Rakdos is better if you are in the midrange camp IMO). If you have Gate payoffs or are splashing you can up this number slightly.

Most decks want 17-18 lands; bear in mind that Open the Gates basically counts as a Guildgate/Gateway Plaza (I've had the ol' 15 land 3 Open the Gates manabase before)

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:30 pm 
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Modulo wrote:
I would have run two more Mountains over the Island and one Forest.
Incongruity is an emergency card at best, the Steeple Creepers can get by without having permanent access to Blue, and you have a Simic Gate as well as an Open the Gates (which btw almost counts as land number 18 IMO, but with a rather high curve and Regenesis this is where you want to be IMO) for the emergency fix.
On the other hand, running any less than 8 Red sources seems criminal to me if you want to hit Red by turn 2 /turn 3 somewhat reliably.

Carnage is fairly bad as a splash IMO; the card is at its best if you can cast it on curve (later both players will be topdecking, making the card a lot less effective).

Looks like there was at least one other bot at the table drafting Gruul. That's actually fairly common as well; if you see basically any of the XXYY cards later than pick 5 or 6, you should consider movig in if you are at least in one of the colours.

The Rare power level in the set is fairly high; there's about 15 Rares or Mythics that are a better P1P1 than the best Uncommon (Mortify) and then there's another fairly big gap to the next best Uncommon. Also, most Rares are at least solid playables.

Oh my ;)

I somehow forgot to adjust the mana base color-wise. I knew that I wanted to go with 18 (counting the OtG like you said). I had issues getting red mana in a few games, but didn't think much about it.

My first 2 rares in that draft were the green one that makes Centaurs.. so I ended up with zero rares; picked up the Absolution pack 3.

Regarding Incubation // Incongruity, I mostly used the left side to dig for a creature. Exiling hardly came up.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:32 pm 
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I have drafted a nice simic deck, but have not played it yet as I am in doubts what better put there.
Do you have any suggestions?
I have put all the cards in question in the right column. Without them the deck has 40 cards, so maybe just leave it be.
What can better suit here: Code of Constraint, Arrester admonition or Slimebind.
Do you use Prying Eyes in the draft? Or does it make the deck slower?
And I doubt, that Wilderness Reclamation is good for drafts but, on the other hand, it is a good way to put more and more counters with Simic Ascendancy.
Thank you.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:22 pm 
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This does indeed look like a very nice pool.

Let's start by going over the cards you've set aside:

-Territorial Boar: Playable 2-drop, nothing too exciting. You have enough 2s so it doesn't need to be in the deck.
-Slimebind: I actually like the card; doubles down as both a combat trick and a way to stave off opposing aggression.
-Growth Spiral: This card is more filler than anything else; correctly on the sidelines IMO.
-Arrester's Admonition: I really like Admonition and would like to try and find a place for it in the deck.
-Wilderness Reclamation: Close enough to unplayable in Limited. The combo with Simic Ascendancy is cute, but if you haven't drawn Ascendancy Reclamation is fairly usleless.
-Prying Eyes: Indeed a fairly slow card and not one I'd want to play in your deck.

Also, I spy an Essence Capture in your sideboard. I'd definitely like to bring that in; it's a counterspell that is relevant later in the game, goes well with your 3 bounce effects and may end up being useful thanks to granting a counter.

So, in total, I'd want to find 3 cuts fro your 40. Here's what I'd consider:
-Regenesis: Similarly slow to Prying Eyes, arguably slower (because you need two permanents in the graveyard to cast it for value), and you don't have any insane bomb to get back.
-Gift of Strength: You have enough better tricks that you don't really need Gift IMO
-Humongulous/Sylvan Brushstrider: These are your worst creatures in the deck, and I like all of your other spells (your ratio is still 14 creatures - 9 non-creatures with this change, which is perfectly fine). IMO Humongulous is slightly better, but Brushstrider occupies a more important curve slot for you; I could see this decision going either way.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:40 pm 
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I'd add slimebind, admonition and essence capture. I'd remove gift of growth, regenesis and swirling torrent.

Torrent is a nice effect but it's really expensive, I'd have admonition in there instead of it as it's much more likely you get to double spell and it also cantrips. Modulo hit all the points in the post above, I'd rather have slightly more creatures though which is why I'd not cut those - bushstrider is important since it's a creature you're happy to trade away and that trades well, something that's a bit lacking at the start of your curve; humongulous looks decent in the deck too as a good target for ascendency. If you decide to cut a creature I'd cut the humongulous.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:17 am 
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Don't have much to add over what's already been said, but I would run Swirling Torrent in your build. Bouncing 2 creatures while blanking opps draw is good, and will help you seal wins when opp thinks they left acceptable number of blockers back on defense. You're not aggro - your beef is in the mid to late game - so that will be useful pushing damage through.

I'd try to run essence capture and admonition. Homuculous is super meh outside High Alert decks, so I'd prob swap that out in favor of one of those. It's butt could be useful on defense in a UW flyers deck, but you have creatures that can have as big a butt or bigger, but also have offensive power.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:09 am 
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FINALLY!!!
A deck that reaches 7-1

It was a sick deck tho...so I would be slapping my self if I could not pilot it to the ultimate prize.
I begun the draft with a Precognitive and, I was looking to be Azorious... I durdle around and then start getting solid Orzhov cards... I thought maybe Esper could do the trick... but in the end I dropped all blue for consistency and I got a P2P2 Absolution!
Image
Image
The deck was a monster!

Best game was against a Esper pile with double Inheritance -just like me :P - and the enchantment that taps your creatures to draw cards... that game was intense, he resolved a T3 Acuity but I just happen to have Mortify to respond ...this thing lasted for like 20 minutes and and was won little by little with incredible topdecking skills.

:D

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