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 Post subject: Temur Wilderness Control
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:34 pm 
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This list was provided by the good old Chief Kryder... mine has not worked out so far so lets get this discussion going.

ImageImage

The idea is to ramp early with growth and Azcanta a little bit later
Then drop.
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Control the board with Cheap removal and then cast a huge Explosion, draw a bunch of cards and do it again next turn.
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apart from that you have

ImageImage

so you could have cast Niv at the end of your turn and untap... and according to Science that is GG

This is Kryders list I only chopped 2 Chemisters for 2 Electrodominance
Spoiler


My first attempt also had and some Skargan Hellkite and Growth chambers to make use of the floating mana... that plus a bunch of counters....
ImageImage

but I ditched those ideas

this is my second attempt with some counter magic and a couple sweepers

Spoiler


SB in progress

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:34 pm 
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Thoughts about Fight with Fire in that list? Can act as an acceptable early-game removal spell and can act as a 20 to the dome with 11 mana mainphase (copy w Expansion // Explosion) or 13 in your end step (Electrodominance for X=3, cast FwF, pay kicker, copy with E/E).

Also, The Mirari Conjecture seems like an interesting 1-of in this list, especially if running the FwF combo.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:57 pm 
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Apparently you cant pay kicker with Electrodominance... I had the same combo in mind but I was told that it wont work...
I guess we need to test it to be sure.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:00 pm 
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I'm tempted to play this deck too! With almost no experience in the new format, first impressions:

1) What's with all the Shivan Fires and Shocks? Do you really need that much cheap removal?
2) No sweepers (Fiery Cannonade)?
3) Surprising the mana base isn't all dual lands.
4) No card advantage spells (Chemister's Insight)?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:25 pm 
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It's a Niv deck, so it wants lots of 1 mana spells to take advantage of him. Normally they run some number of Dive Down too, I'd be tempted to drop Star an Expansion and a cannonade for 3 of those. Maybe go for some cheaper draw as well - Chart a course maybe. Hard to say without playing it lots and comparing it to Niv Drakes.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:54 pm 
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Ok apparently this is not the right way... apparently you just don´t care about creatures... you just want to draw cards and cast your Exp Exp...
this is my current list and its far better
Big changes
ImageImageImageImageImage

So spiral is just amazing... its just silly not to play it... it ramps you and it draws you a card, Shimmer is amazing good, cheap and lets you dig.
Nexus... I hate this card but its so good....
Unconfortable Chill so we use Nexus but this is as near as playing with Fog that I will ever get.
Precognitive perception, very solid cast it main phase with Wilderness and dig... 5 CMC is a lot but I think the card is good... I´m not sold for play set but maybe 2 copies and 2 Chemister is the right split.

Spoiler

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:56 pm 
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Banedon wrote:
I'm tempted to play this deck too! With almost no experience in the new format, first impressions:

1) What's with all the Shivan Fires and Shocks? Do you really need that much cheap removal?
2) No sweepers (Fiery Cannonade)?
3) Surprising the mana base isn't all dual lands.
4) No card advantage spells (Chemister's Insight)?


those are all in on the first list

check the spoiler for full decklist

EDIT:
1. Overall I think it was a mistake to run cheap removals, the deck really just wants to take off and for that you need to draw your cards and find your Wilderness reclamation. The deck can win on the spot if you chain a couple Nexus of fate... and this thing can produce absurd amounts of mana.
2. Same as before... the one reactive card is Uncomfortable chill and that is only good because it lets you keep digging.
3. Exp/exp is the best but I´m also running a combination of Chemisters and Precognitive perception, I think both are very important Chemister lets you discard excess lands and it comes online with Wilderness... Precognitive, its a power house T5 with Wilderness back up.

The deck is super fun to play... but it requires some skill for manually tapping mana... and ALWAYS .... ALWAYS put a stop on your end step.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:33 pm 
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Maybe consider Primal Amulet - Primal Wellspring with all your draw and wanting to chain Nexus.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:06 pm 
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Dude I don't know how to play this deck. It gets killed long before I can set anything up.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:43 pm 
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Dude I don't know how to play this deck. It gets killed long before I can set anything up.

Its not an easy deck to pilot but it can be very fast IME.

Maybe consider Primal Amulet - Primal Wellspring with all your draw and wanting to chain Nexus.

Great suggestion!
I had 3 of those from a previous deck... I test it and ... yes the card is bonkers in the deck it's a Playset in my current build
:D

Modulo wrote:
Thoughts about Fight with Fire in that list? Can act as an acceptable early-game removal spell and can act as a 20 to the dome with 11 mana mainphase (copy w Expansion // Explosion) or 13 in your end step (Electrodominance for X=3, cast FwF, pay kicker, copy with E/E).

Also, The Mirari Conjecture seems like an interesting 1-of in this list, especially if running the FwF combo.

Ok so... I had the felling you were right and it turns out you were!
Well sort of ... you cant copy spells +4CMC

Quote:
Electrodominance also only covers the ‘base’ cost of the spell. If there’s any additional costs like Kicker, you are permitted to pay them if you’d like to, but you do have to actually pony up the payment yourself. You aren’t gonna be casting Electrodominance for X=3 and casting a free, kicked Fight with Fire to do 13 damage on 5 mana. You could, however, do X=3 and freecast the Fire, then pay another 5R to kick it! Electrodominance also doesn’t play well with alternate costs, since you’re already using the alternate cost of ‘free’. So for Commander players out there, you’re not gonna Electro-Overload a Cyclonic Rift, whether you pay 2RR or 7RR, so keep that in mind.

SOURCE: Magic Judge Blogs
I´m still away from being able to cast it... I dunno if you cast Electro for 10 you can cast a kicked FWF or you have to cast Electro for 3+ and then save 6cmc to pay for the Kicker cost of FWF.

Needs further testing.
EDIT: Paying X=9 with Electrodominance to cast a kicked FWF does not work, you can however cast x=+3 with Electrodominance and leave 6cmc to pay the kicker cost as you cast the spell. CONFIRMED.

This is my current build, I chopped those sissy peseudo Fogs.... and went more all in... at this point is hard to justify almost anything.
@Callmemagit shared this article on the Discord... it is a very interesting build for sure maybe there´s something in between for proper B03

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:04 am 
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Current List
---
Testing
Image

This card.... man I cant belive I can cast Niv and Frilled CONSISTENTLY con curve.... This manabases are limitless... :D

3 Search for Azcanta (XLN) 74
4 Growth Spiral (RNA) 178
4 Radical Idea (GRN) 52
1 Blink of an Eye (DAR) 46

4 Wilderness Reclamation (RNA) 149
3 Chemister's Insight (GRN) 32
4 Primal Amulet (XLN) 243
2 Frilled Mystic (RNA) 174

2 Niv-Mizzet, Parun (GRN) 192

4 Nexus of Fate (M19) 306

2 Expansion // Explosion (GRN) 224
2 Electrodominance (RNA) 99

4 Hinterland Harbor (DAR) 240
4 Stomping Ground (RNA) 259
4 Rootbound Crag (XLN) 256
4 Steam Vents (GRN) 257
4 Sulfur Falls (DAR) 247
2 Breeding Pool (RNA) 246
1 Mountain (XLN) 275
2 Island (M19) 267
____
2 Essence Scatter (M19) 54
2 Banefire (M19) 130
1 Shivan Fire (DAR) 142
1 Star of Extinction (XLN) 161
2 Firemind's Research (GRN) 171
2 River's Rebuke (XLN) 71
2 Disdainful Stroke (GRN) 37

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:00 pm 
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Man I need this semi layoff to finish (it's really only the weather holding me back now... cold as F and none of my jobs want to run today) so I can spend a few more bucks on the game. I would love to build this and finish my Mass Manipulation deck.
Glad to hear the Amulet is working good for you. I'm not normally the greatest at evaluation as I never learn all the cards in a set by heart so I can refer to them on a whim but I remembered that card and thought it would fit your deck perfectly.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:50 pm 
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Here are a couple versions of this deck that went 5-0 in MTGO Competative Standard League this week.


Andy_Peters' list:

3 Murmuring Mystic (GRN) 45
4 Chemister's Insight (GRN) 32
4 Expansion // Explosion (GRN) 224
4 Growth Spiral (RNA) 178
1 Nexus of Fate (M19) 306
4 Opt (XLN) 65
4 Radical Idea (GRN) 52
4 Root Snare (M19) 199
3 Shivan Fire (DAR) 142
4 Wilderness Reclamation (RNA) 149
4 Breeding Pool (RNA) 246
4 Hinterland Harbor (DAR) 240
2 Island (XLN) 265
4 Rootbound Crag (XLN) 256
4 Steam Vents (GRN) 257
3 Stomping Ground (RNA) 259
4 Sulfur Falls (DAR) 247

1 Broken Bond (DAR) 157
3 Firemind's Research (GRN) 171
3 Negate (RIX) 44
2 Niv-Mizzet, Parun (GRN) 192
3 Raptor Hatchling (XLN) 155
1 Reclamation Sage (M19) 196
2 Spell Pierce (XLN) 81


qPHJ's list:

3 Chemister's Insight (GRN) 32
4 Expansion // Explosion (GRN) 224
4 Growth Spiral (RNA) 178
4 Nexus of Fate (M19) 306
4 Precognitive Perception (RNA) 45
4 Uncomfortable Chill (M19) 82
4 Gift of Paradise (M19) 184
3 Search for Azcanta (XLN) 74
4 Wilderness Reclamation (RNA) 149
4 Breeding Pool (RNA) 246
4 Forest (XLN) 277
4 Hinterland Harbor (DAR) 240
5 Island (XLN) 265
3 Rootbound Crag (XLN) 256
2 Steam Vents (GRN) 257
2 Stomping Ground (RNA) 259
2 Sulfur Falls (DAR) 247

4 Carnage Tyrant (XLN) 179
4 Negate (RIX) 44
2 Pelakka Wurm (M19) 192
3 Star of Extinction (XLN) 161
2 Treasure Map (XLN) 250


I'm hearing Temur makes a better turbofog deck than Bant did last season...

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:44 pm 
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This is the deck... and I think its really close to the bones, I just took it to FNM and lost on the final ... against RDW by Crazy Razor 2-1, also took it to a Quick constructed event went 7-1, next I will test it on B03... the sideboard is basically change the Root snares for Negates if you are playing against control... that is the one concession the deck makes.
---
This is the list
Spoiler


Finally the deck does want **** fog... its the card that lets you Dodge lethal.

So here is how the deck works

Mull
Hands that does not have either, Search for Azcanta, Growth Spiral, or Root snare in the opening Should be mulled
Ideally you have Wilderness or Primal Amulet on your opening hand.
ImageImageImage
This is what will make you survive or take a little edge in the begging of the game, Search for Azcanta is awesome T2 try to land it before anything else, If you are below 4 lands always try to find what you need and dont be shy on ditching lands to the GY with all the card draw the deck has, you are going to be flooding more often than not.


ImageImage

This is the core of the deck and having redundancy is what makes it work.
Wilderness doubles your mana... Primal Amulet doubles your spells... Together you can Kill your opponent on the spot or take a Bunch of turns.

ImageImage

This is the engine that will allow you to flip Primal amulet... and cycle your hand when you are flooding, both are instant speed so you can use every drop of mana from wilderness activation.

ImageImage

This are your win cons you can end up taking all the turns you want but to actually kill your opponent you are going to have to BURN them.
With a resolved Niv you got another multiplier for your Explosion...

ImageImage

This is just nasty... and when you are doing this its just a courtesy to end the match... coz your may be taking 2-3 turns for every time you cast your Nexus.

Nastiness
ImageImageImage

Once you flip your Search or your Amulet then Wilderness just becomes absurd... For each Wilderness you are getting an extra copy of your spell or looking an extra 4 lands deep.
---

Little vid of the deck in action
Vs Esper
Vs Mono Red

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:21 pm 
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So in the end... this Fog and Nexus crap it isn´t my style of play.... and Nexus seems a bit of a win more card, I´m testing Counter Burn with Risk factor, Electrodominance, Fiery Cannonade and Quench...
I still think that going no Creatures and no PWs is a bit upside specially in B01

This is the Build.... I think I like it a bit more.

IDEAS?

Win cons
ImageImage

Counter magic
ImageImage

I´m really impressed with Quench, it works great with Radical Idea
and Ionize works great with Risk Factor

Engine
ImageImageImage

Core
ImageImage

Board Wipes
Image


2 Electrodominance (RNA) 99
4 Expansion // Explosion (GRN) 224
4 Quench (RNA) 48
4 Ionize (GRN) 179
4 Radical Idea (GRN) 52
3 Chemister's Insight (GRN) 32
3 Risk Factor (GRN) 113
4 Primal Amulet (XLN) 243
4 Wilderness Reclamation (RNA) 149
4 Fiery Cannonade (XLN) 143
--
4 Hinterland Harbor (DAR) 240
4 Stomping Ground (RNA) 259
4 Rootbound Crag (XLN) 256
2 Breeding Pool (RNA) 246
4 Steam Vents (GRN) 257
4 Sulfur Falls (DAR) 247
1 Island (M19) 267
1 Forest (RIX) 196

Really early SB
3 Negate (RIX) 44
3 Essence Scatter (M19) 54
3 Naturalize (RIX) 139

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