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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:40 pm 
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Man I just ran into a a situation where both of my only two Krasis' were killed. I stabilized against Esper control, but had no more wincons. Nothing like an infinite loop of Nexus' to drive you nuts and rage quit.

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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 1:51 pm 
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Full compliment of negates and Nezahal, 3 incubation druids an extra krasis 3 atzocan archers and crushing canopy for the come back win!

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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:00 pm 
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Man I just ran into a a situation where both of my only two Krasis' were killed. I stabilized against Esper control, but had no more wincons. Nothing like an infinite loop of Nexus' to drive you nuts and rage quit.


You should concede then, looping Nexus is illegal in paper anyway ;)

Also http://www.mtgmintcard.com/articles/wri ... p-8-report if you've not seen it. I'll give that plan a try someday. Michael Bonde does make a good point about only having two win conditions though: Thought Erasure can really get you.


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:17 am 
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Using Bonde's list, I went into a constructed league, finishing 3-2. Both losses to monoblue. The matchup feels bad. If I'm on the draw for example and they have 1-drop into Curious Obsession there's nothing I can do. I even drew 3x Aztocan Archer but those archers are irrelevant since they can't kill the 2/2 flyer (opponent had two Curious Obsessions and enchanted two different creatures), they do nothing against Mist Cloaked Herald, and besides, once the monoblue deck has Curious Obsession in play they can just sit behind counterspells and counter the Archer. It's true that the monoblue deck won't always have this kind of draw, and they will run out of counters eventually, but it's still annoying to know there's nothing I can do.

Will try Temur next. If it doesn't work out I'll just abandon the entire archetype.


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:17 pm 
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Lol I just played against a Sultai player who played three Unmoored Egos on consecutive turns against my Simic Nexus deck post-board. When the first two were cast I hadn't drawn any counterspells too. First one named Nexus, second one named Hydroid Krasis, third one I countered (no choice since the only win condition left in my deck was Biogenic Ooze). Then it turns out I didn't even need Biogenic Ooze because the only creatures he had were Llanowar Elves, and he died to Incubation Druid beatdown. Was funny :D


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:53 pm 
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Does anyone have experience with Bant Nexus? I'm seeing curiously little articles about this configuration, and I don't see why. It's true that Nexus decks have moved towards taking infinite turns (RIP Teferi), but it's also true that Nexus is weak to aggro, and white has some of the best anti-aggro tools available. In the sideboard you have:

- Knight of Autumn, great card against monored and monowhite (both tough matchups). Can gain life if you need it, can trade afterwards, can kill History of Benalia/Conclave Tribunal/Experimental Frenzy
- Settle the Wreckage, a true sweeper that also gets past indestructibility. I notice it's gotten rarer and so people play around it less. I don't know why however. It seems Kaya's Wrath is better in Esper, but you don't have black mana, and it's not like Kaya's Wrath existing makes Settle the Wreckage unplayable. Gruul Spellbreaker is the other possibility, but Gruul is rare, and in that scenario you can always not board it in.
- Revitalize: pure lifegain that cycles, obviously good against aggressive decks (not sure how good though, since combo pieces might simply be more important).
- Lyra Dawnbringer, the ultimate creature against aggressive decks, effectively "remove me or lose". It's a lot cheaper than Pelakka Wurm, and also effective against monoblue (do they dare keep Essence Capture against you?).
- Deputy of Detention: not sure how effective this is, but against decks that can't easily remove your creatures (i.e. other Nexus decks), this could be a game-winner. The same goes for the other narrow, anti-Nexus white sideboard card Demystify.

There're two big drawbacks I can see to running white. The first is that you can't run Expansion//Explosion as your kill condition. However Hydroid Krasis is still a capable (if a little less good, in my experience) kill condition, so this isn't fatal. The other is that running white means you have to adapt the manabase, and Settle the Wreckage being WW is stressful to your mana. However it's not like sideboard space in this deck is at a premium - you have 15 slots but most of the time you can't sideboard many cards anyway. That means you could conceivably run Plains in sideboard if you can't find space for it in the maindeck.

Does anyone have experience with this version of Nexus? If so, how did it go?


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:28 am 
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Maybe even Baird, Steward of Argive?? It's big enough to block lots of creatures + survive Lightning Strike, and the tax it imposes on attacking should matter. He's even immune to Cast Down.

I'll probably try some of those options in a sideboard soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:26 am 
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Played some Bant Nexus. It seems at my bracket there're an awful lot of Nexus mirrors, which isn't surprising I suppose. The Nexus mirror seems pretty straightforward and becomes a coinflip, since it all comes down to who draws the better hand. I guess that also holds for other matchups, but at least you have more scope to outplay the opponent in those matchups. In Nexus mirrors it's just play lands till 7 (never tap out after opponent has 4 mana), then cast Nexus on opponent's end step. It's possible I'm just missing something, however, since I haven't played that many games.

One weird thing I noticed is that I played Nexus on my opponent's end step, he responded with Nexus, and yet I got the first extra turn!?

- Sideboard slots are surprisingly precious with Bant Nexus. There're a lot of cards I could want, and not enough slots to fit them all in.
- Crushing Canopy probably too important to give up. 2-3 copies in sideboard are vital to win the mirror. Knight of Autumn can also kill enchantments, but it's sorcery speed. You need to be able to kill Wilderness Reclamation before the trigger goes on the stack. I could run Demystify but then Thief of Sanity looks brutal.
- Negate for the same reason of winning the mirror, plus it's good against Esper/Monoblue. Heck, I feel like I want Spell Pierce. Even with 8 lands in play, it can win counterspell wars.
- Settle the Wreckage and Cleansing Nova have been surprisingly effective. I only have 1 copy of the former and 2 of the latter, but they've already saved my ass against a monogreen deck. Nobody plays around Settle the Wreckage anymore, making it more powerful.
- Can't tell how good Kraul Harpooner is yet. It's decently common in Simic Nexus sideboards, but it seems like only a tool against Monoblue. The other main purpose - as a 3/2 beatstick against Wilderness Reclamation decks - looks extremely ineffective given how much damage the deck does. Being on 5 life is irrelevant if opponent resolves Nexus.
- Really have no idea how good Baird is. I didn't board him in against the monogreen deck, because it generates mana well (Llanowar Elves etc). Presumably sweepers are more effective, but he is immune to Duress and Negate.
- I wish I could play Lyra but I really have no sideboard space.
- I seem to flood a lot, at least with the list I ran. Probably going to drop to 25 lands.
- Only having one Blink of an Eye feels paltry. This card is effective in Nexus mirrors too. Will probably run 2 and hope to find space for 3 copies.
- My Nexus opponents have been playing Frilled Mystic. Surprising, but also effective against me.
- The mana is certainly worse, but not intolerably worse. Not having Memorial to Genius against other Nexus decks is something of a disadvantage, though.
- Not sure if Teferi is a bettter win condition than Krasis.


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:48 pm 
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Banedon wrote:
One weird thing I noticed is that I played Nexus on my opponent's end step, he responded with Nexus, and yet I got the first extra turn!?


[quote = MtG comprehensive rules]500.7. Some effects can give a player extra turns. They do this by adding the turns directly after the
current turn. If a player gets multiple extra turns or if multiple players get extra turns during a single
turn, the extra turns are added one at a time. The most recently created turn will be taken first[/quote]

You play Nexus, he responds with Nexus. His Nexus resolves first, your extra turn is the most recently created one, you take the extra turn first.
One of the intricacies of the Nexus mirror.

Banedon wrote:
- Can't tell how good Kraul Harpooner is yet. It's decently common in Simic Nexus sideboards, but it seems like only a tool against Monoblue. The other main purpose - as a 3/2 beatstick against Wilderness Reclamation decks - looks extremely ineffective given how much damage the deck does. Being on 5 life is irrelevant if opponent resolves Nexus.


Harpooner is your best out to both mono-Blue and Thief of Sanity. Costing 2 instead of 3 Mana and being unable to be Negated/Spell Pierced is big game; especially in Nexus.

Quote:
My Nexus opponents have been playing Frilled Mystic. Surprising, but also effective against me.

Not all that surprising considering one of the earliest Simic Nexus lists (by Ali Aintrazi) had four of them mainboard. Simic Nexus has since moved on to Sinister Sabotage though.

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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:50 am 
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Indeed - I learned that casting Nexus into opponent's 7 mana is potential suicide, as long as they know to let your Nexus resolve first before casting their Nexus.

About Frilled Mystic, I know it used to be common in Nexus decks, but I also read that it's been declining in popularity because it's not very powerful. I can understand: it can't be Duressed or Negated, but that's it; it's a 4-mana counterspell that's a bad rate and the 3/2 body is not important. It can potentially trade for an attacker, but you'd need the opponent to cast something first to block the turn Frilled Mystic comes into play. Sabotage should usually be better, usually; the surveil can also help flip Azcanta.

Other thoughts:

- I've yet to try Deputy of Detention, but from theory it's looking better and better. Take the monoblue matchup. They are definitely boarding out Dive Down against you for Spell Pierce and Negate. Now Deputy of Detention is actually a complete house! Unless they have Siren Stormtamer up or expend a Wizard's Retort, you can simply kill the Curious Obsession'ed creature. Plus, monoblue doesn't have a way to remove a resolved creature permanently. On paper it appears less good against other Nexus decks because there's just Search for Azcanta to kill; if Reclamation resolves you probably lost.
- Against monowhite, you can conceivably kill their Benalish Marshal to shrink their 2/1s back into block range. It also dodges Negate & Disdainful Stroke. They have to Conclave Tribunal, which would otherwise have been good against you anyway. You can also kill their Conclave Tribunal with Deputy, too.
- Against Esper, this can kill Thief of Sanity. It also stresses their sideboard plan, because they definitely have to sideboard in creature removal against you now. That said, I do notice that they already tend to keep Vraska's Contempt in.
- Speaking of Esper, I feel like Carnage Tyrant is better than Biogenic Ooze. Tyrant means they can't just run Vraska's Contempt - they need Kaya's Wrath, which is a sorcery with all associated drawbacks.

I feel like the ultimate Nexus sideboard would be transformational in nature, looking to outfox midrange & control opponents, while bringing in sweepers and (hopefully) lifegain against aggro decks. I just need to find a good postboard configuration.

In the Bant colors, which creatures could fit the bill of "game-winning + hard to answer"? Biogenic Ooze and Carnage Tyrant spring to mind, but are there anything else? Lyra was one of my original ideas, but although I've yet to try it she does not seem like a good idea: she's just too easily answered and doesn't generate value when coming down. Rekindling Phoenix would qualify, but it's red.

Mesmerizing Benthid sounds like complete jank, but it should be able to buy two turns ... maybe ?


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:44 am 
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Some partial progress notes after playing Nexus (Simic + Bant) for a few more days:

- I didn't run into any white aggro, which should be the matchup the sweepers are best at. Still, I blew out one monored player with Cleansing Nova (he was running Guttersnipe; otherwise I'm skeptical of bringing in sweepers in that matchup). Was kind of a funny game. At 15 life on turn 3, he played Risk Factor, and I let him draw. A few turns later, he played another Risk Factor, and I still let him draw. I was thinking at that point that Nexus will win the late-game, so the main constraint on him would be the mana he has available, not the number of cards he had ... but then he made all his land drops till the game ended.
- I won the match, but I'm skeptical monored is a good matchup for Nexus. I won game 1 because I comboed faster than him, and then took game 3 off the Cleansing Nova blowout (he had greedily played two Guttersnipes before playing his burn). Like white aggro, monored is fast and very consistent. The weakness is, if they have a burn heavy hand, they will easily lose. A creature heavy hand however is very threatening.
- I played and lost to monoblue once. I won game 1 because he drew no counterspells. Game 2, I drew 3 Kraul Harpooners and 2 Carnage Tyrants and still lost. The Harpooners held the air, but his Djinn were big enough to block Tyrant and Herald was able to attack through anyway. Eventually I ran out of life before I was able to chain together turns. Game 3 I lost as well after he had T2 Curious Obsession on Herald. There's no way to beat that, sadly. This opponent also kept in Dive Down against me, which come to think of it might make sense (not least because it wins creature combat). The upside is, even if Kraul Harpooner is "countered" by Dive Down, it's still around to block.
- It doesn't seem like Carnage Tyrant is good against monoblue. It will likely need four attacks to win, and that's a lot.
- Crushing Canopy is probably good vs. blue. I didn't board it in, which must have been a bad idea. Hydroid Krasis maindeck helps in this matchup as well.
- The manabase can take the strain of an additional color. Occasionally it will hurt, e.g. one might not want to pay 2 life to Opt on turn 1, but the damage isn't too heavy. The real question is whether the additional color is worth it, because right now, I have so few white cards in the deck.
- Conceivably I could just take out Root Snare and put in Settle the Wreckage.
- Murmuring Mystic is a card to try, since in theory it can provide a steady stream of chump blockers and is big enough to block everything even if boosted. If this works out then white isn't necessary.

These past few days, it seems I've finally found a deck to play for the rest of the season :)


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:56 am 
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Very quick thought, it turns out there is a significant drawback to running an extra color: you can't run utility lands anymore. I'm not really a fan of Memorial of Genius or Arch of Orazca - they're so mana intensive - but without them, the Nexus deck will flood more. It's not critical, but it's a noticeable drawback.

A bit disappointed because if I stick to two colors the odds of me finding something the hive mind have not goes to zero. RIP.


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:25 am 
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Banedon wrote:

A bit disappointed because if I stick to two colors the odds of me finding something the hive mind have not goes to zero. RIP.


To be fair, the odds of anyone finding anything the hive mind have not are very close to zero at this point in a Standard format.

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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:08 am 
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True, but there're still things to be had. For example I asked Matt Nass on stream whether he'd tried splashing a color for sweepers in Simic Nexus, and he said no.

Here's an interesting Sultai Nexus list from the Mythic Championship as well: https://decks.tcgplayer.com/magic/stand ... us/1348164 I'm considering trying it. Black instead of White means you still have sweepers (albeit weaker ones like Ritual of Soot), and you get to play Thought Erasure & Unmoored Ego.


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:39 am 
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I played some Sultai Nexus and ... not sure what to make about it. Ritual of Soot is great - it kills so many creatures, including Hydroid Krasis. However it does feel like the deck is less consistent. I have no idea why, it feels like I can't combo with any consistency. Result, I get ground out very easily. For example my control opponents seem to out-card me very easily. I don't understand why. Compared to standard Simic lists, the only real change is switching out Root Snare for Ritual of Soot. Root Snare is also a do-nothing card, so why can't I combo as consistently? The only other difference is that Simic lists have 4x Memorial, but when I play Simic, it's not as though I crack Memorial very often.

I also have no idea how to sideboard. Having black does seem there are more cards I could want, e.g. Moment of Craving vs. monored and Unmoored Ego vs. Esper, but there isn't much to sideboard out.

Maybe Thought Erasure should be in the sideboard, not maindeck. That might help the maindeck combo more consistently in game 1, and I can bring in Thought Erasure when it's good.


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:25 pm 
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I've played lots of Sultai Nexus in Traditional Constructed now, and don't think I ever did better than 2-2. I made a ton of mistakes, but still. The gains don't seem worth it:

- Damage to mana base is actually substantial. It's not enough to kill the deck, but you will have times when you have all checklands and no shockland, or be forced to shock yourself.
- You also don't have 4x Memorial to Genius.
- In return for the black mana, you get Ritual of Soot + Thought Erasure. But Ritual of Soot is a sorcery, which is a real drawback. You can no longer e.g. play Wilderness Reclamation to advance your board and still have a defensive play available. It also means you can't use Chemister's Insight, Azcanta, etc, to find Ritual to stay alive. The latter drawback is very big.
- The other payoff, Thought Erasure, is scarcely worth boarding in against many decks in the format. Against the decks where it's actually useful, Negate is almost as good.
- Ritual actually conflicts with your main win condition (Krasis).

It's funny to nuke Sultai's board with Ritual of Soot - so many of their creatures are vulnerable to it - but I doubt it's worth it.


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:19 pm 
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Banedon wrote:
I've played lots of Sultai Nexus in Traditional Constructed now, and don't think I ever did better than 2-2. I made a ton of mistakes, but still. The gains don't seem worth it:

- Damage to mana base is actually substantial. It's not enough to kill the deck, but you will have times when you have all checklands and no shockland, or be forced to shock yourself.
- You also don't have 4x Memorial to Genius.
- In return for the black mana, you get Ritual of Soot + Thought Erasure. But Ritual of Soot is a sorcery, which is a real drawback. You can no longer e.g. play Wilderness Reclamation to advance your board and still have a defensive play available. It also means you can't use Chemister's Insight, Azcanta, etc, to find Ritual to stay alive. The latter drawback is very big.
- The other payoff, Thought Erasure, is scarcely worth boarding in against many decks in the format. Against the decks where it's actually useful, Negate is almost as good.
- Ritual actually conflicts with your main win condition (Krasis).

It's funny to nuke Sultai's board with Ritual of Soot - so many of their creatures are vulnerable to it - but I doubt it's worth it.


So have you settled on just using Simic for Nexus? What's your current list?

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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:34 am 
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No list unfortunately. I'd just look at one of the Nexus guides like this one https://www.channelfireball.com/article ... xus-guide/ which also gives some details on how to build Nexus.


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 3:07 pm 
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Maybe what I wrote about Temur Reclamation works better for Nexus? Bant Nexus now has big Teferi (saves you from having to play a bad win con), sweepers, small Teferi + Dovin's Veto (wins counter wars), and Tamiyo/Teyo (stops discard from affecting the combo). I'm reasonably excited to test it now actually :D Only worried about having to invest the wildcards before the meta is clear.


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 Post subject: Re: Simic Nexus
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 8:28 pm 
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Banedon wrote:
Maybe what I wrote about Temur Reclamation works better for Nexus? Bant Nexus now has big Teferi (saves you from having to play a bad win con), sweepers, small Teferi + Dovin's Veto (wins counter wars), and Tamiyo/Teyo (stops discard from affecting the combo). I'm reasonably excited to test it now actually :D Only worried about having to invest the wildcards before the meta is clear.


I'm running out of slots too fast. Didn't get any sweepers...

3 dovin's veto
4 growth spiral
2 prison realm
2 teyo
4 absorb
3 teferi
4 chemister
4 wilderness reclamation
2 tamiyo
3 big teferi
4 nexus

24 lands and I'm at 59. Are you not supposed to run reclamation??

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