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 Post subject: Re: Gruul Sarkhan
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:35 pm 
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elk wrote:
Yeah this deck is working very well. About 10-2 so far in Platinum. Struggling against WW though.

I was thinking about Siege-Gang Commander for the sideboard instead of Vivien, Champion of the Wilds for removal and wide board states (and again cheecky with the boar). Are you playing BO1 or BO3?

elk


Just been playing BO1 right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Gruul Sarkhan
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:37 pm 
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elk wrote:
Yeah this deck is working very well. About 10-2 so far in Platinum. Struggling against WW though.

I was thinking about Siege-Gang Commander for the sideboard instead of Vivien, Champion of the Wilds for removal and wide board states (and again cheecky with the boar). Are you playing BO1 or BO3?

elk


Usually WW has 4/4 and 5/5s that keep growing with lifegain or conflux. That's what kills me. I don't think there's a good way to beat them other than a quicker start.

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 Post subject: Re: Gruul Sarkhan
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:47 pm 
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i hope u die in combat

Is that what spartan wifes told their husbands before war?

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 Post subject: Re: Gruul Sarkhan
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 10:11 am 
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I really would like to slot in more Domri, Anarch of Bolas. Ramping off of llanowar into him is game over. But the only thing to take out is dire fleet or Rhythm of the wild.

I see how Rhythm is awesome, of course, but I feel like it slows things down, more often that not. I'm gonna test taking them out for 2 more domri.

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 Post subject: Re: Gruul Sarkhan
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 12:32 pm 
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So, my limited quest is done, I have 211/212 rares ;)

I tried your deck, elk. Turned out, I even had the two Ravager Wurms, so I only had to craft 1x Rhonas and 1x Ilharg, which was questionable but I did it anyway. Also needed the DFDs, but by now crafting them was overdue.

Gotta say I'm with Cucho on the "lack of removal"-aspect. Went 0-2 against Phoenix and then got dumpstered 0-2 vs the classic Sultai list, mainly from Hostage Taker and Wildgrowth Walker. Thus I took out the Incubation Druids for 4x Lightning Strike. Then I lost 1-2 to another Gruul deck that destroyed me 3 times through the air. Yes, 3 times, but game 1 I got out lucky at 1 hp when my Rhonas-attack killed him out-of-nowhere, he might have mis-blocked. Last game I won 2-0 vs RDW, that was fine.

Only 4 opponents and thus not really conclusive, but I think a little feedback is better than none. Games were played in Bo3 ladder gold rating.

Then I tried Cucho's version (what's the current list btw?). This went better, but I have to get used to the new decks. Like what's the plan vs the Nissa, who shakes the World + Mass Manipulation deck? I went for the fastest possible kill and that somehow worked in game 3. Did you know we don't get to shuffle Rhonas back when he dies on the opponent's side? I also beat Esper in a veeeeery long game, though I think that was still a 2-0. I lost to Grixis Control 1-2 after spending way too much time within his "execute range". Should've been dead but just couldn't finish him. I also played a Gruul list that was running Chainwhirlers who really hurt - but I forgot the outcome :roll:

One thing about Vivien's Arkbow: It's nice in certain matchups but it whiffs all the time - at least for me.

I really would like to slot in more Domri, Anarch of Bolas. Ramping off of llanowar into him is game over. But the only thing to take out is dire fleet or Rhythm of the wild.

I see how Rhythm is awesome, of course, but I feel like it slows things down, more often that not. I'm gonna test taking them out for 2 more domri.

In which matchup is t2 Domri game over? I'm not sure about the split between him and Rhythm. Played with both in the two different decks and at least multiple Rhythms do something.


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 Post subject: Re: Gruul Sarkhan
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 6:03 pm 
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Sol77_bla wrote:
So, my limited quest is done, I have 211/212 rares ;)

I tried your deck, elk. Turned out, I even had the two Ravager Wurms, so I only had to craft 1x Rhonas and 1x Ilharg, which was questionable but I did it anyway. Also needed the DFDs, but by now crafting them was overdue.

Gotta say I'm with Cucho on the "lack of removal"-aspect. Went 0-2 against Phoenix and then got dumpstered 0-2 vs the classic Sultai list, mainly from Hostage Taker and Wildgrowth Walker. Thus I took out the Incubation Druids for 4x Lightning Strike. Then I lost 1-2 to another Gruul deck that destroyed me 3 times through the air. Yes, 3 times, but game 1 I got out lucky at 1 hp when my Rhonas-attack killed him out-of-nowhere, he might have mis-blocked. Last game I won 2-0 vs RDW, that was fine.

Only 4 opponents and thus not really conclusive, but I think a little feedback is better than none. Games were played in Bo3 ladder gold rating.

Then I tried Cucho's version (what's the current list btw?). This went better, but I have to get used to the new decks. Like what's the plan vs the Nissa, who shakes the World + Mass Manipulation deck? I went for the fastest possible kill and that somehow worked in game 3. Did you know we don't get to shuffle Rhonas back when he dies on the opponent's side? I also beat Esper in a veeeeery long game, though I think that was still a 2-0. I lost to Grixis Control 1-2 after spending way too much time within his "execute range". Should've been dead but just couldn't finish him. I also played a Gruul list that was running Chainwhirlers who really hurt - but I forgot the outcome :roll:

One thing about Vivien's Arkbow: It's nice in certain matchups but it whiffs all the time - at least for me.

I really would like to slot in more Domri, Anarch of Bolas. Ramping off of llanowar into him is game over. But the only thing to take out is dire fleet or Rhythm of the wild.

I see how Rhythm is awesome, of course, but I feel like it slows things down, more often that not. I'm gonna test taking them out for 2 more domri.

In which matchup is t2 Domri game over? I'm not sure about the split between him and Rhythm. Played with both in the two different decks and at least multiple Rhythms do something.


You’re ramping into all your 4 drops T3 and they’re protected from counters.

Multiple in hand is a waste. 3 is probably the right number. I did replace the Incubation Druid with lightning strike. When oh when will they reprint Lightning Bolt??

The early removal is necessary I think. Just for taking out ajani pridemate or wild growth walker.

I’m almost to diamond though.

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 Post subject: Re: Gruul Sarkhan
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 2:10 pm 
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With all the discard out there, Nullhide Ferox should be an auto-include for anything running green. Especially decks with a high creature count.

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 Post subject: Re: Gruul Sarkhan
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 2:41 pm 
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With all the discard out there, Nullhide Ferox should be an auto-include for anything running green. Especially decks with a high creature count.

Good point, just had to play an Esper opponent with Basilica Bell-Haunts. And normally it's only Grixis with that crap. But then I'm currently running Chainwhirler, so I'm down to 12 green sources and 1 Unclaimed Territory that doesn't help him. However Chainwhirler does shine.

Still don't feel that good vs Control compared to Sultai that I played before WAR. Hydroid Krasis did a lot of work to stay ahead on cards.

What's your take on Cindervines vs Control? Board them all in or only vs Combo? I run out of stuff to board out vs Control.


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 Post subject: Re: Gruul Sarkhan
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 6:58 pm 
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Sol77_bla wrote:
With all the discard out there, Nullhide Ferox should be an auto-include for anything running green. Especially decks with a high creature count.

Good point, just had to play an Esper opponent with Basilica Bell-Haunts. And normally it's only Grixis with that crap. But then I'm currently running Chainwhirler, so I'm down to 12 green sources and 1 Unclaimed Territory that doesn't help him. However Chainwhirler does shine.

Still don't feel that good vs Control compared to Sultai that I played before WAR. Hydroid Krasis did a lot of work to stay ahead on cards.

What's your take on Cindervines vs Control? Board them all in or only vs Combo? I run out of stuff to board out vs Control.


TBO I've been on a BO1 kick. Search for Azcanta doesn't seem that big of a deal anymore. I guess it is in Esper, but you don't see it in Grixis and I haven't seen a reclamation deck in a couple weeks. Seems like a waste.

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 Post subject: Re: Gruul Sarkhan
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 11:28 pm 
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Sarkhan 2.0
Ok so the deck has beeing performing, and I just keep changing I heard that someone reached mythic with a different version, this guy runs Warboss main deck 3 Chandras and a Nissa, I think that gives some edge Vs control so it got me thinking... and I put Chandra back, added a couple more Dorks and see how it went... reached D1 so far, so this has being working against Esper and RDW.

A Nissa is probably worth a spot here but so far this has being working for me.
4 x Llanowar Elves
2 x Paradise Druid
4 x Growth-Chamber Guardian
4 x Gruul Spellbreaker
4 x Rekindling Phoenix
2 x Dire Fleet Daredevil
2 x God-Eternal Rhonas

2 x Chandra, Fire Artisan
3 x Domri, Anarch of Bolas
3 x Sarkhan the Masterless

2 x Shock
4 x Lightning Strike

7 x Forest
9 x Mountain
4 x Rootbound Crag
4 x Stomping Ground

3 x Kraul Harpooner
3 x Lava Coil
4 x Cindervines
2 x Vivien's Arkbow
3 x Legion Warboss

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 Post subject: Re: Gruul Sarkhan
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 8:08 am 
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Can't really post a list with a 7-7 Bo3 record so far, but can we talk about a few things?

The only matchups I've seen multiple times are Control and Esper Hero. How do you approach them - and what do you board out?

I don't even find room for Cindervines anymore, thus the question. When is it good? Or - which cards are worse than it vs Control?

I've found out that it does virtually nothing vs Ral-combo (it doesn't ping on spell-copies) and so I wonder if it's worth any sideboard slots at this point in time.

Also, I really like Goblin Chainwhirler but that removes Llanowar Elves and Nullhide Ferox as options due to the mana base. Previously I used to board out Elves vs Control to win a value-game. Do you keep them in for their tempo contribution and try to race the opponent?

edit:

@elk: For your creature approach, have you considered Ghalta, Primal Hunger and Skarrgan Hellkite? There was a deck featured on Channelfireball near the end of RNA Standard.

edit2:

Forgot about Phoenix, that came up multiple times as well and that might be the one deck where Cindervines shines. But then I also need all the Kraul Harpooners, Lava Coils and Vivien Reids that I have in the SB.


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 Post subject: Re: Gruul Sarkhan
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 10:01 am 
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Sol77_bla wrote:
Can't really post a list with a 7-7 Bo3 record so far, but can we talk about a few things?

The only matchups I've seen multiple times are Control and Esper Hero. How do you approach them - and what do you board out?

I don't even find room for Cindervines anymore, thus the question. When is it good? Or - which cards are worse than it vs Control?

I've found out that it does virtually nothing vs Ral-combo (it doesn't ping on spell-copies) and so I wonder if it's worth any sideboard slots at this point in time.

Also, I really like Goblin Chainwhirler but that removes Llanowar Elves and Nullhide Ferox as options due to the mana base. Previously I used to board out Elves vs Control to win a value-game. Do you keep them in for their tempo contribution and try to race the opponent?

edit:

@elk: For your creature approach, have you considered Ghalta, Primal Hunger and Skarrgan Hellkite? There was a deck featured on Channelfireball near the end of RNA Standard.

edit2:

Forgot about Phoenix, that came up multiple times as well and that might be the one deck where Cindervines shines. But then I also need all the Kraul Harpooners, Lava Coils and Vivien Reids that I have in the SB.



Esper Control and Esper hero is a lot of what I´m seeing too, what I do is try to ramp on the play and play a mid-late game approach on the draw.

The deck can hit a devastating curve with very few resources, I´m loving Paradise Druid, the hexproof goes a long way when you wanna cheat a powerful spell above curve.

I board the 4 Cindervines against Control and take Elves, sometimes I board in Warboss -if I dont too much sweepers- I always try to jam one Arkbow but rarely gets to the main deck I think we could shave one copy from the SB for sure.

Harpoones generally only comes on G2 against Mono Blue, If I want to be supper aggressive like against Ral Combo I also board them in.

Nissa is tricky to play, the moment you play Nissa the whole game warps into her, she is a hyper fast clock and can fuel the most insane plays, but you make your lands vulnerable and that can be also your doom.

I´m 10-6 with the current build.

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 Post subject: Re: Gruul Sarkhan
PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 11:19 am 
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Ok so Nissa I did not like it so much... Chandra is not really card advantage in this meta where everyone has PW spot removal... -Except us- Rhonas is good but when he comes down on a empty board is just awful...

I´m testing UGIN now he is almost unconditional removal and 6 CMC is not insane in this durdling meta and we are already ramping... besides there are far too many Pws and he have no direct answers to them... he can also hit Enchantments and draw us cards... and he is colorless .

so here are a couple of changes.

PS: Rhythm in the end was just cute... missing your 3rd turn is just awful, maybe one of on the SB could do the trick.

Also Arkbow bypasses little Teferi coz you are not casting the spell you are putting it on the battle field... just something to have in mind :)
4 x Llanowar Elves
4 x Growth-Chamber Guardian
2 x Paradise Druid
2 x Dire Fleet Daredevil
2 x Legion Warboss
4 x Gruul Spellbreaker
4 x Rekindling Phoenix

4 x Lightning Strike
2 x Shock

2 x Ugin, the Ineffable
3 x Domri, Anarch of Bolas
3 x Sarkhan the Masterless

7 x Forest
9 x Mountain
4 x Rootbound Crag
4 x Stomping Ground
--
2 x Kraul Harpooner
3 x Lava Coil
4 x Cindervines
2 x Vivien's Arkbow
2 x Nullhide Ferox


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