It is currently Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:02 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 1:55 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jul 19, 2014
Posts: 1282
So not a new idea but thought it might be fun to post for input. It's strictly a creature based aggro/sac idea but I have several ideas for the sideboard to transform the deck (but it seems like a lot of folks are interested in BO1).


4 x Fanatical Firebrand
4 x Gutterbones
4 x Dreadhorde Butcher
4 x Priest of Forgotten Gods
4 x Rix Maadi Reveler
4 x Judith, the Scourge Diva
4 x Mayhem Devil
2 x Tibalt, Rakish Instigator
2 x Spawn of Mayhem
2 x Chandra, Fire Artisan
2 x God-Eternal Bontu
4 x Blood Crypt
4 x Dragonskull Summit
2 x Field of Ruin
7 x Mountain
7 x Swamp


Field of Ruin may be sketchy on the mana and could be a one of or totally removed. Still could be really strong though since there's quite a few decks running 3 colors and not many basics or we try to jam them on colors for tempo loss. That and lands like Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin are problematic. Worth investigating anyway.

Sideboard considerations so far (midrange-ish ideas):

2 x Angrath, the Flame-Chained
2 x Liliana, Dreadhorde General


There's also the other options like adding a sideboard burn package with Shock, Lightning Strike, Lava Coil and Heartfire (Heartfire maybe should be main board....). There could easily be room in the sideboard for Dire Fleet Daredevil too. Straight removal options like Bedevil,Vraska's Contempt, Cast Down and Moment of Craving. Even Liliana's Triumph could be a thing here as straight removal and trigger the deck depending on the match up. Sweeper effects like Fiery Cannonade might be a consideration. There are a few 'maybe' cards that I'll list below where the deck could use the sideboard to try and change into more of a midrange 'big red' style deck (could be a good idea for throwing the opponent off or against certain match ups. Also would allow the deck to adjust for when on the play vs. draw).


Other "Maybe" type cards being listed for reference/remembering (qty's aren't accurate and the cards are just listed so I don't have to dig/brainstorm later):

1 x Eternal Taskmaster
1 x Fireblade Artist
1 x Footlight Fiend
1 x Midnight Reaper
1 x Rekindling Phoenix
1 x Vindictive Vampire
1 x Massacre Girl
1 x Widespread Brutality
1 x Theater of Horrors
1 x Risk Factor
1 x Experimental Frenzy
1 x Krenko, Tin Street Kingpin
1 x Legion Warboss
1 x Siege-Gang Commander


Ok, getting late and theorycrafting brain is tired. May tinker again later but folks are more than welcome to throw their two cents in!


Thanks

elk

_________________
oh SHUT UP ELK


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 7:03 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Apr 24, 2017
Posts: 1670
Location: Cucho Lambreta#13992
I dont like Field of Ruin and Chandra in the main deck...
Love the Devil!! That card is bonkers in limited... 3cmc is a bit too much but the payoff could be huge, have you tried going Mardu, lower the lands and add Cruel celebrant, maybe even Tesya?
I have lost my fair amount of games to the mardu pile, Celebrant gives a lot of reach.

_________________
NGA LEAGUE
:planeswalker:


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 10:55 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jul 19, 2014
Posts: 1282
I dont like Field of Ruin and Chandra in the main deck...
Love the Devil!! That card is bonkers in limited... 3cmc is a bit too much but the payoff could be huge, have you tried going Mardu, lower the lands and add Cruel celebrant, maybe even Tesya?
I have lost my fair amount of games to the mardu pile, Celebrant gives a lot of reach.

Chandra, Rix Maadi, Priest & Bontu are all potential sources of card advantage in an archetype that typically runs out of steam fairly quick (we do tend to toss a lot of our cards into the grave after all ;)). Chandra could be a sideboard card but I still think trying to keep the foot on the petal is pretty important which is why I put it main board. Chandra also has the small upside that when it comes into play, it's 'typically' 5 damage to the face for 4 mana when it's removed and only gets better if it doesn't (yes there's a lot of PW hate/exile etc but that doesn't mean it's completely countered like Wilderness Reclamation was with Teferi, Time Raveler which shuts down the whole deck idea. So I think Chandra is still worth playing somewhere in the 75 and I'm still leaning to mainboard).

I mentioned my thoughts on Field of Ruin. As long as the deck can play close to on curve and doesn't suffer for the loss in mana sources (and that remains to be tested - two of them could be too many and maybe should only be one), having some utility doesn't seem like a downside. Hitting key lands/utility lands (Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin for example) or hurting 3+ color decks like Esper and Grixis (which usually don't have much room for basics) should be something to consider in this style of deck. Not to mention being able to cause some tempo loss for the Kaya's Wrath (or really any card with a double symbol cost i.e. ,,, and for good measure we'll just mention ) is going to be a factor. I mean seriously look at the color requirements in Esper Control or Midrange and how easily you could put that deck behind by hitting a Hallowed Fountain or Watery Grave or Godless Shrine at the right time, especially if you anticipate cards they have in hand. It just seems like it's worth testing to see how it does.

The more I mull over the deck, the more I want to find room for Heartfire. Need to figure out how many to try (card is a good sac outlet but is a dead draw if we can't keep creatures on the board) and where to fit it in.

As for the Mardu idea, there are variations out there that manage but I think the aristocrats archetype suffers for going 3 colors. You're into a lot of shock lands which can be punishing and several color specific cards that don't get cast on curve (or on time) because of missing sources can be a big downside (same reasoning for Field of Ruin above). Cruel Celebrant and Dreadhorde Butcher are good examples of what I mean (and these decks typically want to be more on curve than other 3 color decks). The Mardu version is great when the lands are on time and it happens like it's supposed to but having games where they don't is a tempo killer and puts you on the back foot quickly (and these style decks generally don't play well from behind). Personally I think they seem to perform better as either Orzhov which is slower and a bit more controlling or Rakdos which is usually a lot more aggressive. Just my :two: though.


elk

_________________
oh SHUT UP ELK


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 2:29 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jul 19, 2014
Posts: 1282
4 x Fanatical Firebrand
4 x Gutterbones
4 x Dreadhorde Butcher
4 x Priest of Forgotten Gods
3 x Rix Maadi Reveler
2 x Heartfire
4 x Judith, the Scourge Diva
4 x Mayhem Devil
2 x Tibalt, Rakish Instigator
2 x Spawn of Mayhem
2 x Chandra, Fire Artisan
2 x God-Eternal Bontu
4 x Blood Crypt
4 x Dragonskull Summit
1 x Field of Ruin
7 x Mountain
7 x Swamp


dropping 1 Field of Ruin and 1 Rix Maadi Reveler to add in 2 Heartfire

sideboard ideas so far:

2 x Angrath, the Flame-Chained
3 x Bedevil
3 x Dire Fleet Daredevil
2 x Fiery Cannonade
3 x Lava Coil
2 x Liliana, Dreadhorde General


This is just theorycrafting for the sideboard atm and things could change there too but wanted to list the ones I'm most considering.

Everything needs testing but this is where'd I'd start.


elk

_________________
oh SHUT UP ELK


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 10:36 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jul 19, 2014
Posts: 1282
Actually after watching a few decks being considered for upcoming events, Field of Ruin was in a couple of them for the same reason (to punish the greedy mana bases that most 3 color decks are running). A lot of the 3 color lists ended up with between 1 to 3 basics (esper control, esper midrange/hero, jeskai superfriends, grixis control etc).

So for the sake of testing, I would change the mana as follows


4 x Blood Crypt
4 x Dragonskull Summit
3 x Field of Ruin
6 x Mountain
6 x Swamp


Based on Frank Karsten's mana calculations, we're still 'reasonably' good throughout the curve with most of the cards and the percentages he gives (Dreadhorde Butcher being an exception in it's percentage for T2). But as always, testing is definitely worth it's weight to see how it actually functions.

Oh and it may not have been evident but Field of Ruin found it's way into the deck originally because it was another cheeky trigger for Mayhem Devil. Cause ya know...pew pew!


elk

_________________
oh SHUT UP ELK


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:13 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mar 07, 2015
Posts: 573
Location: Austria


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:56 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jul 19, 2014
Posts: 1282
DaRkStAr wrote:

It's a sac option that doesn't require additional cards to do so. It'll trigger Mayhem Devil and can be activated immediately as well as be a haste attacker in any sort of overwhelming/alpha strike board presence. Same goes for Judith, the Scourge Diva where you can activate immediately to trigger. It just seems to have the same floor as Footlight Fiend but a higher ceiling in this deck.



I've made small tweaks here and there but the shell of the deck is the same.


4 x Blood Crypt
4 x Dragonskull Summit
3 x Field of Ruin
5 x Mountain
7 x Swamp
4 x Fanatical Firebrand
4 x Gutterbones
2 x Angrath's Rampage
4 x Dreadhorde Butcher
2 x Heartfire
4 x Priest of Forgotten Gods
3 x Rix Maadi Reveler
4 x Judith, the Scourge Diva
4 x Mayhem Devil
2 x Chandra, Fire Artisan
2 x Spawn of Mayhem
2 x God-Eternal Bontu


Sideboard
2 x Angrath, the Flame-Chained
2 x Dire Fleet Daredevil
4 x Duress
2 x Lava Coil
3 x Legion Warboss
2 x Tibalt, Rakish Instigator


I am trying a bit of hand hate/disruption in the sideboard against heavy removal with Duress and Angrath, The Flame-Chained (with Angrath also having a steal/sac option or the potential to use Heartfire on their creature). Warboss is everywhere right now for planeswalker pressure/control. Dire Fleet and Lava Coil are just soild inclusion in several situations and Tibalt is just a good fit in the deck. Tibalt also is great against any life gain situations which can be a problem for the deck (any explore package or Command the Dreadhorde decks etc)

I'm still trying to push the Field of Ruin package to try and combat all the Esper, Jeskai, Bant, Grixis etc. It's not as effective as the Japanese Golgari land destruction deck that's trying to combat the meta options but it's still meant to cause enough of a disruption to give the deck a better chance against decks running a lot of Planeswalkers. Also remember that Field of Ruin is a sac trigger for Mayhem Devil.

Something that I may not have mentioned (or wasn't immediately apparent) and was a big reason to push the sacrifice Mayhem Devil angle is the God-Eternal Bontu kill. If you have Mayhem out and can cast Bontu onto the board; if you sac everything including lands (and let's assume you only have Mayhem and the 5 lands to cast Bontu), that's still 6 damage to the face. It's 'assumed' you will have a bit more of a board presence or more than 5 lands in play when you attempt this so you only go up from there (again assumed as a finisher if you going to sacrifice your entire board otherwise you're just sacrificing for value/draw).


elk

_________________
oh SHUT UP ELK


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:35 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 17, 2018
Posts: 47
I was trying to build a deck with a similar shell that uses land destruction moreso than burn. It fared miserably last night in unranked. I'll check out your list. I've been playing bant and simic so long I really don't know what the playable cards are in black and red.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:23 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 20, 2013
Posts: 806
Location: Bama gulf coast
Preferred Pronoun Set: SleepHmper on XBL add me

_________________
The Last Fight Club Champion
Image
"If there can be no victory, then I will fight forever."
—Koth of the Hammer


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:19 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 20, 2013
Posts: 806
Location: Bama gulf coast
Preferred Pronoun Set: SleepHmper on XBL add me
My current version that has been ok, feels like it needs a little more unfair stuff to be good. It needs something like Runaway steam-kin into experimental frenzy unfair especially since RDW is the low to the ground meta option right now. The real problems are Teferi decks and anything that pulls out exile effects and there are quite a few right now but the worst offender is cry of the carnarium.

4 x Heartfire
1 x Spark Harvest
3 x Angrath's Rampage

4 x Gutterbones
4 x Fanatical Firebrand
2 x Grim Initiate
4 x Footlight Fiend

4 x Dreadhorde Butcher
2 x Viashino Pyromancer
4 x Fireblade Artist

3 x Judith, the Scourge Diva
1 x Theater of Horrors
2 x Mayhem Devil

4 x Blood Crypt
4 x Dragonskull Summit
7 x Swamp
7 x Mountain


SB:
4 x Duress
3 x Tibalt, Rakish Instigator
2 x Priest of Forgotten Gods
3 x Dire Fleet Daredevil
2 x Rekindling Phoenix
1 x Spark Harvest


Arena format:
4 Dreadhorde Butcher (WAR) 194
7 Swamp (WAR) 257
7 Mountain (WAR) 261
4 Heartfire (WAR) 131
4 Gutterbones (RNA) 76
1 Spark Harvest (WAR) 105
3 Judith, the Scourge Diva (RNA) 185
4 Fanatical Firebrand (RIX) 101
4 Blood Crypt (RNA) 245
4 Dragonskull Summit (XLN) 252
2 Viashino Pyromancer (M19) 166
4 Fireblade Artist (RNA) 172
1 Theater of Horrors (RNA) 213
3 Angrath's Rampage (WAR) 185
4 Footlight Fiend (RNA) 216
2 Mayhem Devil (WAR) 204
2 Grim Initiate (WAR) 130

4 Duress (M19) 94
3 Tibalt, Rakish Instigator (WAR) 146
2 Priest of Forgotten Gods (RNA) 83
3 Dire Fleet Daredevil (RIX) 99
2 Rekindling Phoenix (RIX) 111
1 Spark Harvest (WAR) 105

_________________
The Last Fight Club Champion
Image
"If there can be no victory, then I will fight forever."
—Koth of the Hammer


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group