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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:08 am 
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I think overall Simic has better matchups against the meta. One really important advantage the Simic deck has over UW is that after turn two creatures everything and I mean everything is flash-able/instant(the reason I don't play tireless tracker in my build). So Simic is really the only "pure" flash deck, while UW is a tempo deck with flash elements. Having the ability to keep mana open and play everything at instant speed consistently whenever you want is something no other deck offers. You will find yourself tapping out with UW at times , when you have a counter in hand - where as with Simic it will almost never happen after turn 2. I think this gives the Simic more synergy.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:46 pm 
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Light wrote:
I think overall Simic has better matchups against the meta. One really important advantage the Simic deck has over UW is that after turn two creatures everything and I mean everything is flash-able/instant(the reason I don't play tireless tracker in my build). So Simic is really the only "pure" flash deck, while UW is a tempo deck with flash elements. Having the ability to keep mana open and play everything at instant speed consistently whenever you want is something no other deck offers. You will find yourself tapping out with UW at times , when you have a counter in hand - where as with Simic it will almost never happen after turn 2. I think this gives the Simic more synergy.

Agree'd, especially with the new vehicles. I was running mono-blue, but after seeing what others are running, I want to have the counter to my own deck, which I think is rec sage.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:10 pm 
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I think Simic Flash - although it sees very little play - is still one of the best positioned decks in the format. Let's update it for KLD!

Previous Version: http://forum.nogoblinsallowed.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=10298&start=300#p477900

The obvious addition is 3x Blossoming Defense, which is the pump spell we always wanted. This easily takes the spot of Void Grafter. We also gain a lot from 3x Aether Hub improving the mana base. I agree with the calls to drop Tireless Tracker to lower the non-flash curve, but I think it's important to have some powerful threat down before we put up our shields. For those who play legacy, this deck wants to be Delver, not Miracles. As such, my tentative idea is:

Remove:
2x Tireless Tracker
2x Void Grafter
2x [] Elder Deep-Fiend
2x Convolute
4x Evolving Wilds

Add:
3x Lambholt Pacifist
3x Blossoming Defense
2x Fleetwheel Cruiser
3x Aether Hub
1x Woodland Stream

I'll be testing this out to see what I think - but other suggestions are also welcome!

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If I ever built an Esper Control deck, it would still somehow contain 2x Sylvan Advocate, 2x Tireless Tracker, 1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer, 1x Reclamation Sage, 1x Nissa, Vital Force, and 1x Woodland Bellower.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:44 pm 
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No Zerris really can't remove Elder Deep Fiend... Cutting Trackers are perfectly good. Cutting Void G would make the deck having even less creatures but the Blossoming defense are good indeed - can turn your 2/1 flash into valid blocker... If I run 2/1 flash I'd use Blossoming too.

Cruisers are interesting. It could grab some surprise wins against aggro race?

Have you considered blue gearhulk as a expensive 6cmc counter? Probably not in your aggro-control version.

For my list, my goal is that by turn 3 setting up counter against slower decks meanwhile having a potential 3/3 or 2/4 flash blocker against aggro. The deck could end up in a damage race when I run out of counters. Cruisers are good in that regards. I will probably test swap out Blue hulk and Confirm Suspicious for 2 cruisers.

---- 18 creatures
3 x Duskwatch Recruiter
3 x Lambholt Pacifist
3 x Pack Guardian
3 x Bounding Krasis
3 x Void Grafter
2 x Elder Deep-Fiend
1 x Torrential Gearhulk

---- 17 counters
3 x Unsubstantiate
2 x Scatter to the Winds
3 x Broken Concentration
4 x Spell Shrivel
4 x Convolute
1 x Confirm Suspicions

------ 25 land

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:52 pm 
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By the way I have given up UW flash idea. The loss of creatures toughness making UW so fragile against other traditional aggro decks. Can't flash in Bounding Krasis for a removal or even trade. While facing control decks with more red removals, Bounding Krasis 3 toughness is much better to survive the first burn.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:35 am 
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No Zerris really can't remove Elder Deep Fiend... Cutting Trackers are perfectly good. Cutting Void G would make the deck having even less creatures but the Blossoming defense are good indeed - can turn your 2/1 flash into valid blocker... If I run 2/1 flash I'd use Blossoming too.

Cruisers are interesting. It could grab some surprise wins against aggro race?

Have you considered blue gearhulk as a expensive 6cmc counter? Probably not in your aggro-control version.

For my list, my goal is that by turn 3 setting up counter against slower decks meanwhile having a potential 3/3 or 2/4 flash blocker against aggro. The deck could end up in a damage race when I run out of counters. Cruisers are good in that regards. I will probably test swap out Blue hulk and Confirm Suspicious for 2 cruisers.

---- 18 creatures
3 x Duskwatch Recruiter
3 x Lambholt Pacifist
3 x Pack Guardian
3 x Bounding Krasis
3 x Void Grafter
2 x Elder Deep-Fiend
1 x Torrential Gearhulk

---- 17 counters
3 x Unsubstantiate
2 x Scatter to the Winds
3 x Broken Concentration
4 x Spell Shrivel
4 x Convolute
1 x Confirm Suspicions

------ 25 land

I would drop some Convolutes for the new 4 cmc counter, since it has multiple options, as well
Insidious Will or something like that

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:25 am 
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Thing is I feel more often we need a counter spell that costs U less than we need a misdirection right?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:09 pm 
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One of my favourite decks I've ever built, a combo deck that reminds me the times I played paper magic back in 1998:

UG Turbo-Fog

Creatures:

1 Greenwarden of Murasa

Spells:

4 Fog
3 Commencement of Festivities
2 Disperse
1 Displacement Wave
3 Nissa's Pilgrimage
3 Explosive Vegetation
2 Nissa's Renewal
1 Crush of Tentacles
1 Part the Waterveil
4 Hieroglyphic Illumination
3 Pore Over the Pages
2 Pull from Tomorrow

Enchantments:

2 Retreat to Kazandu
3 Sphinx's Tutelage
1 Trial of Knowledge

Lands:

10 Island
9 Forest
1 Lumbering Falls
2 Hinterland Harbor
1 Woodland Stream
2 Geier Reach Sanitarium

The idea is similar to 1998 combo deck Tolarian Academy: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/instant-deck-tech-1998-academy-historical-standard but with milling as a winning condition.

Pros: This deck doesn't care about creatures, planeswalkers and removals since the only creature is Greenwarden of Murasa that is only used to reclaim a Fog or Sphinx's Tutelage or Pull from Tomorrow from the graveyard. Opponent can kill it, even exile it, do not care much about it, althought would be better to be killed to reclaim something else from graveyard. This deck also doesn't care about lifegain because damage is not its game. Another pro is that being also a ramp deck, the opponent will expect big creatures but will face Sphinx's Tutelage and realize is a milling deck too late.

Drawbacks: Fast decks with burn spells and control decks with counterspells can stop this deck. However, there are still chances to win if played correctly.

How I play it: Stand all the game gaining life with Retreat to Kazandu + ramp spells (Nissa's Pilgrimage , Explosive Vegetation , Nissa's Renewal) , Fogs (Fog , Commencement of Festivities) and Displacement Wave , Crush of Tentacles , Part the Waterveil , ramp as much as possible and draw cards until getting a Sphinx's Tutelage and Pull from Tomorrow and finally draw as many cards as possible to mill the opponent but also with other drawing spells. The combo is basically Sphinx's Tutelage + Pull from Tomorrow but if this would not be enough, because of the ramp, Sphinx's Tutelage ability can be used with such amount of lands and also Geier Reach Sanitarium to close the game.

Still I want to improve this deck because I am not convinced with Trial of Knowledge and probably Crush of Tentacles , Part the Waterveil because creatures are not the game of this deck.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:43 pm 
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These are some screenshots in 2 games against AI:

First game against mono white tokens. Standing with Fogs:

Image

Second game against mono green. Here you can see the winning condition combo:

Image

Image

Image

Image

I've made a change over the previous decklist and I am very happy with that:

-1 Trial of Knowledge
+1 Animist's Awakening

Animist's Awakening This card allows getting extra mana to filter lands, and because there are lots of instants and sorceries in the deck, is easy to have Spell Mastery, so lands enter in game untapped, just perfect to cast expensive spells or the combo Sphinx's Tutelage + Pull from Tomorrow.

----------------------------

UG Turbo-Fog

Creatures:

1 Greenwarden of Murasa

Spells:

4 Fog
3 Commencement of Festivities
2 Disperse
1 Displacement Wave
3 Nissa's Pilgrimage
3 Explosive Vegetation
2 Nissa's Renewal
1 Animist's Awakening
1 Crush of Tentacles
1 Part the Waterveil
4 Hieroglyphic Illumination
3 Pore Over the Pages
2 Pull from Tomorrow

Enchantments:

2 Retreat to Kazandu
3 Sphinx's Tutelage

Lands:

10 Island
9 Forest
1 Lumbering Falls
2 Hinterland Harbor
1 Woodland Stream
2 Geier Reach Sanitarium


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:22 pm 
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Why Woodland Stream over the 2nd lumbering falls? Falls strictly better - just don’t have a play set?

I think Crush is useful here even if you’re not trying to win with the token creature. It’s a board reset, and your big mana should let you dump tutelages back on board quickly.

Waterveil maybe less useful. If you have a bunch of mana out, it’s beneficial in letting you get some mill in turn you cast, then another full turn to mill more, but casting on curve doesn’t really do anything for you. Could replace this with blue gearhulk. Nice utility flashing back a fog spell or 4 mana draw spell.

Idk about awakening... In my experience that card is garbage. Too much variance. Seems like another instant speed draw 2 would be better here (specially if you run the gearhulk). I don’t see how the spell mastery clause benefits you for casting big spells. Even if you hit every card in X a land, you’re still paying 1 more land to cast than you’ll get in and untapped. Better to put that 1 into casting pull in the first place, if your idea is to cast same turn.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:54 am 
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Built and played a few games. You’ve got 61 cards - not sure if that was intentional or a typo. I cut 1 Sanitarium to make 60 and traded the Stream for the 2nd Falls - only changes.

Had a game won with a big Pull. That was cool. Had a game I couldn’t find Tutelage, but won with Falls manland and an awakened land from the time walk spell that I put extra counters on with Retreat. That was cool, and I think a valuable example of needing another win con in case you don’t find tutelage. Had a game I got absolutely steam rolled case I didn’t draw any fog or mass bounce effects. It was brutal.

The mass bounce spells were awkward in one game. Needed them to stay alive, but they bounce tutelages and slow everything down a bit. Only drew Animist’s Awakening in one game and it was super bad. Had a ton of mana on the board and (X)ed for around 10 but only netted 2 lands, putting some good spells on the bottom of my deck. It was sad face.

I think the deck might need to go Temur or Sultai. Think it needs some sweepers. With red you could have geistblast to copy big draw spells. Also would like to put the aftermath card in that fetches a land for (3) and draws 2 for (6).

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:22 pm 
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What about this?

Creatures:
1 x Greenwarden of Murasa
1 x Torrential Gearhulk
1 x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger


Spells:
4 x Fog
4 x Commencement of Festivities
1 x Displacement Wave
3 x Spring // Mind
3 x Explosive Vegetation
2 x Nissa's Renewal
1 x Crush of Tentacles
1 x Part the Waterveil
4 x Hieroglyphic Illumination
2 x Pull from Tomorrow
2 x Commit // Memory
1 x Baral’s Expertise


Enchantments:
2 x Retreat to Kazandu
3 x Sphinx's Tutelage


Lands:
10 x Island
9 x Forest
2 x Lumbering Falls
2 x Hinterland Harbor
1 x Geier Reach Sanitarium



Out: -1 Stream, -1 Sanatarium, -2 Disperse, -3 Pour over the Pages, -3 Pilgrimage, -1 Animist’s

In: +1 Falls, +1 Festivities, +1 Gearhulk, +1 Ulamog, +2 Commit // Memory, +3 Spring // Mind, +1 Expertise

Why: land changes to get to 60 cards and run strictly better dual color tap land. Extra fog plus Gearhulk to stay alive (Gearhulk versatile in being able to flash back draw 2 spell, depending on need). Ulamog cause it’s a ramp deck, but it also helps mill plan, so on theme. Spring cause it lets you draw cards on backside, and can fetch island if needed. Extra forest(s) in hand with Pilgrimage seemed a little less important for the game plan, especially in light of trimmed looting effects. Commit because it helps answer threats (with a tutelage in play it’s basically hard removal/counter), and memory can do some jumbo milling if you have a couple tutelages out. Expertise to help stay alive and free cast spells (helps if struggling to find a window to cast Vegetation, etc - set opp back, get your other spell cast)

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:32 pm 
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I replaced Animist's Awakening by Torrential Gearhulk and fixed lands. The decklist:

UG Turbo-Fog

Creatures:

1 Greenwarden of Murasa
1 Torrential Gearhulk

Spells:

4 Fog
3 Commencement of Festivities
2 Disperse
1 Displacement Wave
3 Nissa's Pilgrimage
3 Explosive Vegetation
2 Nissa's Renewal
1 Crush of Tentacles
1 Part the Waterveil
4 Hieroglyphic Illumination
3 Pore Over the Pages
2 Pull from Tomorrow

Enchantments:

2 Retreat to Kazandu
3 Sphinx's Tutelage

Lands:

10 Island
9 Forest
2 Lumbering Falls
2 Hinterland Harbor
1 Geier Reach Sanitarium

There was something wrong in my previous decklist, I put 2 Geier Reach Sanitarium but I only run 1 copy, 24 lands. If "Fogs" are not enough, maybe we can cut a card and replace it by a fourth Commencement of Festivities since other decklists have 4 Fog and 4 Commencement of Festivities. I built this deck to have a Simic deck but currently I have 2, the first one I built is this combo deck and the second one is pretty much the typical UG beasts, quite similar to Legenvd Simic Colorless. I am enjoying both and this Simic combo deck is giving me fair good results. As for Temur, I thought about another combo deck in the future and replace an aggro deck which bores me a little, you know, cast creatures and hit, not really fun. I have seen the Thelona's Fling Drakes combo but I am a bit worried about it because can be as fantastic or as terrible. The other option is a Temur Ramp with a monster "Fireball" + Insult // Injury. I really like combo decks, who remember "Illusions Donate" deck with the combo Illusions of Grandeur + Donate? The idea of this deck came to me while watching a youtube video of a former spanish magic duels player, but He goes with another combo: Greenwarden of Murasa + Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger + Crush of Tentacles + Baral's Expertise with Oblivion Sower and Jace, Unraveler of Secrets to exile whatever you want casting Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger and Oblivion Sower bouncing them all the time but I replaced all those cards with Sphinx's Tutelage because I think is safer winning with mill and because of the combo Sphinx's Tutelage + Pull from Tomorrow. This is the video of the spanish guy, I know you won't understand anything but just by watching from 15.40 to 32.11 (the first match) you will almost have a heart attack to see this deck to the extreme:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MPErd_mPnU


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:32 pm 
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I haven't seen your last message. You are right, I think I'll go with Spring // Mind over Nissa's Pilgrimage at this moment because you can also pick an island and "Mind" allows to draw 2 cards that may help to find the cards needed to win. Also, having 2 extra forest in hand with Nissa's Pilgrimage probably doesn't make a huge advantage.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 12:27 pm 
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Just decided to pop back in here on a whim and saw people discussing Fog. I personally think this is the way to go if you want to play traditional TurboFog.

Lands: x24

Island x4
Mountain x1
Forest x2
Lumbering Falls x1
Wandering Fumarole x1
Cinder Glade x1
Sulfur Falls x2
Rootbound Crag x2
Hinterland Harbor x2
Geier Reach Sanitarium x1
Aether Hub x3
Evolving Wilds x4

Creatures: x4

Minister of Inquiries x3
Torrential Gearhulk x1

Spells: x32

Fog x4
Commencement of Festivities x4

Pull From Tomorrow x2
Telling Time x3
Censor x3
Take Inventory x4
Glimmer of Genius x3
Talent of the Telepath x1
Pore Over the Pages x1

Enchantments: x6

Sphinx's Tutelage x3
Fevered Visions x2
Bounty of the Luxa x1

Planeswalkers: x1

Jace, Unraveler of Secrets x1

The whole purpose here is to be able to dig through your own deck as fast as is possible without sacrificing a lot of value to discard.

This serves three real major functions.

First it allows us to dig for Fogs when we need them, and keep our hand stocked with them to keep the Fog chain rolling and maintain a lock. With 8 Fog effects (9 including Gearhulk) and a ton of cheap draw this maximizes our probabilities of having or finding Fog when we need it.

Secondly this allows us to dig for our engine cards/win-cons. Fevered Visions, Jace, and Bounty of the Luxa are our engines here. They help us to dig through our deck for Fogs. They help to dig through our deck for Tutelage, and they let us dig into more draw to dig even deeper for those things. All while also fueling our win-con itself (Tutelage) to mill opponents out before we run dry on Fog effects.

Lastly all the cheap draw (like the engines) help to fuel Tutelage so when we get it down we mill people out surprisingly quickly.

Minister of Inquiries is a recent addition to the deck, one that I was initially very iffy about, but with Aether Hub and Glimmer of Genius they have proven to be surprisingly effective at helping to "get there" on the mill front. That said they are removal magnets, as the only other creature the deck runs is Gearhulk, which isn't "really" a creature 90% of the time and is instead just a more expensive flashback of Fog or Glimmer of Genius, so we don't really care if it immediately eats removal (unlike the Ministers).

Baby Jace was in the deck for awhile as well, and could probably be added back in depending on how you feel. Like the above mentioned Ministers I found him to be a removal magnet, but this was also before I added the Ministers to the deck, so that may be less of an issue now as there are slightly more creatures. I also found him to be relatively slow for the deck. The looting effect was useful from times, but most of the time the deck would rather be just drawing cards rather than looting (and having to discard). As a PW his + ability is rarely useful for us because of Fog and because by the time he transforms the opponent usually has a full field of creatures, his - is actually very useful but tends to leave him very vulnerable and ticks down his loyalty. His ultimate is exactly the sort of thing this deck wants, but in my experience 99% of the time you will never tick him up enough to actually get it off, and most of the time you do it is overkill at that point anyways.

The single copies of Pore Over the Pages and Talent of the Telepath are recent additions as well. Both have performed decently, although Pore over the Pages has been a bit slower than I personally like, and the "cast an opponents spell or two for free" aspect of Talent of the Telepath has been very lackluster. The majority Instant/Sorcery spells our opponents are playing are largely pointless for us, like most removal, combat tricks, ramp, etc. Ideally we hit more card draw, but doesn't always work out well.

I had recently tried out Cathartic Reunion in those two spots but wasn't impressed. Being able to dig that deep for that cheap was nice for the deck, and it did allow some silly plays with Tutelage, but I found myself not wanting to cast it in a lot of scenarios simply because I didn't want to discard cards in my hand (Fogs and early lands usually). The strength of the card can't be denied here, but in practice it just seemed to be way too clunky for my liking.

The best bet though is probably for those last two slots (the ones taken by Pore over the Pages and Talent of the Telepath) to go back to my original take on the deck and become Confirm Suspicions which gives the deck a bit more interaction against non-creature based win-cons (burn, PWs, artifacts and enchantments) while also giving us more cheap dig (Clue tokens).

Another fun option if you are bored would be to swap Dynavolt Tower in for Tutelage, which works quite well in this shell also. All that cheap draw and Fogs get converted into a pretty significant amount of burn, especially combined with Fevered Visions. That is actually what this final (mill) version of the deck evolved from with Unsubstantiate in place of the Ministers since it was all in on the burn gameplan.

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