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PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:06 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:06 am 
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While you may be able to argue that eventually Sean earned his treatment from the forum, it doesnt change that the forum treated him that way from the word go, before he'd done anything to earn it. In his position, I would also have rapidly realised I gave zero **** about the community.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:15 am 
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And it is still rude to talk about him in this space, since the odds of him being able to defend himself are very low. It's the same as if I went to a 3rd forum and started talking smack about one of you guys. Whether deserved or not, you wouldn't like it. And if you never found out about it......

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:51 am 
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Elijin wrote:
While you may be able to argue that eventually Sean earned his treatment from the forum, it doesnt change that the forum treated him that way from the word go, before he'd done anything to earn it. In his position, I would also have rapidly realised I gave zero #$%! about the community.


Nein. _Some_ people treated him that way from early on, and that was entirely because of Microbless before him. They were already jaded from his continual absence, and didn't expect any different from Sean, who made pretty much the exact same promises - which was a bad call, but I actually felt like he meant them, at least at the time. But it's not like people were brutally ripping into him all the time or anything.

Yes, it was unfair of people to automatically assume he'd be no different than his predecessor. However, it would be equally unfair to punish everyone in the forum for that opinion when not all of them held it, if that is indeed the thought process that ran through his head. I don't believe it was.

Somewhere between 2013 and 2014 though, he kind of vanished. Being fair, there wasn't a lot to discuss. It was that transitional period between one game and the next, and it was only natural to figure that there wasn't much to do and he wasn't going to be around much. Totally fair.

Thing was though, he never picked back up. 2014 was announced a lot of other places than the official site. The official site was rarely less than the third site to post any new information. We didn't get an exact release date until six days before the soonest release and twelve from the latest. Yeah, that was probably corporate's call and their fault. Whether Sean was distracted or slow or depressed or what, we were never told.

He ended up taking holidays we were never informed of until either after the fact, or until we started an actual riot asking for information. No one was assigned or stepped in to fill his place. That's crap.

I mean I bantered with Sean and I tried to make light of things for awhile, and in the end it was probably a big cycle of "Sean's not delivering up to our expectations, let's voice our disappointment/Disappointment makes Sean not want to deliver" and yes, I'm absolutely sure some of that was not his fault and beyond his control.

But that's just discussing doing the bare essential minimums of his job. He didn't try to excel, or go above and beyond, aside from one art contest that I could remember. Rarely did he address issues or bugs asking for official replies, even with something like "I'd love to give you more information about that but I can't at this time."

In the end, he did exactly what Microbless did; he over-promised and under-delivered, and anyone in sales or customer service should be able to tell you that's a horrible place to be in. Now we're throwing straight-up bald-faced lying into the mix. Crossing that lines puts him below the person he replaced and if it were my call, he'd be fired. But then I've often said I'd do things a lot differently than Wizards does them.

Magic is such a good game, but I wish it were in the hands of better people. (Actually truth be told a fair bit of this is probably Hasbro's fault because I seem to recall WotC being more communicative when they were their own game, but that may be a nostalgia filter.)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:26 am 
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Perhaps you should expect less of a personal relationship from the community manager of a major corporation's official forum. It seems like the standards you've set for him are impossible for anyone in his position to live up to.

Or hey, hate the guy if you wanna hate him. But the end of the day, it's just a messageboard. Is it really worth all this frustration you feel?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:55 am 
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My "standards" were "acknowledges we exist at least once a month." Or "at least pretends to give a damn when dozens of people are complaining about how they can't play because of an embarrassing bug that should have been caught prior to release." If you think that's impossible for anyone in any position to live up to, then congratulations, you've somehow managed to have an even lower opinion of humanity than I can dredge up.

I mean last I checked some of the initial deck lists still have errors in them that he never took five minutes to fix. There was a post up, pre-release, for at least three weeks saying the sealed pool would be 180+ cards, because neither Sean nor anyone who gave him that information gave enough of a damn to bother fact-checking the information that was posted.

I mean if you're satisfied being continually treated with less respect that we'd give to dogs by other human beings who are actively asking for the money you earn, that's on you. It's not like they're asking for a full week's pay or anything, it's true, but it doesn't cost anything to at least fake some concern or empathy when people are unable to use a product they purchased from the company who signs your paycheques. I don't have to sit there and take it, though.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:30 am 
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I think part of the problem is that Sean, like Mike Robles before him, has been given too many hats. As far as I can tell, he's somehow expected to be the Community Manager for all communities that cover any Magic-related products. So not just DotP, but also paper Magic and Magic Online. Not just the official forums, but also the unofficial forums, Facebook, Twitter, Podcasts, GPs and Pro Tours and Conventions. The scope of it is daunting. Just keeping track of all of those communities would be hard enough, but actually participating in all of them on more than the barest, most superficial level? While also running Wizards' Magic-related social media presence? Not really possible. So no, I don't really blame him for not living up to the hype.

I just wish Wizards would realize just how much Community there is to Manage, and find a way to realistically do so rather than expect one guy to do it singlehandedly.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:43 am 
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mjack33 wrote:
And it is still rude to talk about him in this space, since the odds of him being able to defend himself are very low. It's the same as if I went to a 3rd forum and started talking smack about one of you guys. Whether deserved or not, you wouldn't like it. And if you never found out about it......

The alternative is to go and voice these opinions on the Wizards boards, which is as redundant as it is counterproductive.

Personally, I think "Sean has to quit his job to say something other than what Wizards writes on his cue cards" is nonsense and no-one who makes such a claim could ever possibly back it up.
There are really easy ways he could communicate what he wanted without breaking policy and beyond that, GoA is right, "Information on (subject), is not available at this time" isn't ever a policy breaker, nor can we reasonably blame Sean for that response. But we never got that either.

I share GoA's position on this. He could have communicated more and I don't buy that he was working with a gun to the back of his head at all times.
At the same time though, I don't feel any disdain towards Sean. I wouldn't treat him with any disrespect if I were to encounter him in the future.
While I don't agree with his amount of interaction with us, at no time did he do or say anything worthy of my wrath.
The ORCs on the other hand....


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:47 am 
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And Sean's as welcome to come read this space as he likes. He knows we're here and he can pop on over and defend himself if he likes. I don't think we'd even tell Wizards. Heck, I'd be glad if he came over here and spouted out some truth. It's not like this is a secret club where we're bashing Sean and he has no chance of ever finding out.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:31 am 
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, obviously, I just think that overall Sean was a good guy in a bad position and a lot of people blamed him for a lot of things that he had no say over. I do think he could have been more engaged, but that doesn't mean I think he was some awful pos either.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:40 am 
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@everyone,

It's the difference between talking to someone and talking about them. The first can be rude, but the second almost always is. Since you aren't actually going to go to the old forums anymore *cough* *cough*, the subject should just be dropped. Because........ frankly we don't need to hear about why the forum you are never going to go to ever again was completely horrible and isn't worth your time. It spills over into way too many threads, and its a completely worthless subject after the first dozen or so times. Because WOTC probably isn't going to come to this site and change based on what one of the posters, who is never going back to their site btw, says. The only purpose it serves at all is to prolong how angry people stay.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:16 am 
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Jack, what makes this example special? As opposed to discussing Mark Rosewater, Felica Day, or any other public figure we discuss in these forums? Because Sean, as a community manager of a rather successful franchise, is exactly that - a public figure.

Im happy to let this discussion die, but I had to ask that as its stuck in my mind the times you've used that line of reasoning in this topic.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:35 am 
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^^ It's not different initially. But 11 pages in it becomes different. Because it's not a few posts and then we're done. It's dozens and dozens of posts spanned out over pages. It's okay to insult lady gaga a few times on page 2X of the off topic thread, but it's not okay to insult lady gaga for 10 pages straight. That's the bar where you've passed from okay or maybe a little trolly ....... to just plain mean honestly. And it's not like everyone chimed in once or twice and we're done either. We've had an admin show up and say it's gone a little too far.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:55 am 
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mjack33 wrote:
[...] but it's not okay to insult lady gaga for 10 pages straight.[...]


I disagree it's always ok to insult lady gaga

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:08 pm 
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NimNams wrote:
Perhaps you should expect less of a personal relationship from the community manager of a major corporation's official forum. It seems like the standards you've set for him are impossible for anyone in his position to live up to.

Or hey, hate the guy if you wanna hate him. But the end of the day, it's just a messageboard. Is it really worth all this frustration you feel?


This.

Also, to answer the OP:

No.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:49 pm 
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mjack33 wrote:
[...] but it's not okay to insult lady gaga for 10 pages straight.[...]


I disagree it's always ok to insult lady gaga


Careful there Yertle.
I have respect for her after her two Howard Stern interviews.

When it comes to Sean I hold no animosity but I do feel like I was thrown under the bus, so it would be easy for me to do so, but I won't.
I wash my hands of the place.

Now. I will shut up about both people

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:23 pm 
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mjack33 wrote:
^^ It's not different initially. But 11 pages in it becomes different.

Okay.... If it becomes different after 11 pages, then by your own criteria, you can ask people to cease disussing Wizards_Sean on page 20.
Because we've only been discussing him for a page and a half.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:52 am 
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TUBARALHO wrote:
PEOPLE FROM NGA THAT GO TO THEN WOTC FORUM COMPLAINING ABOUT YOU RIGHTS?

SURE. YOU HAVE ALL BEEN EXCOMUNICATED.

did i saound like a WotC moderator? or a real pope?


Happy birthday Tub!!

This is some thread


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