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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:24 pm 
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astarael7 wrote:
Also the interesting bits of The Silmarilion were those bits where characters either rose or fell spectacularly. So I will double down on saying that Kate Elliot using effective framing and tone for the story she is choosing to tell.

She's not using the appropriate tone at all for the Ugin bits.
It's not wise to try to humanize characters like Sauron because it undercuts their whole schtick.
I mean, I totally recall when he plopped on his butt and said 'I'm stuck'... yep, makes for a great dark lord.
On the flip, what is probably more accurate a description of what she's doing is making Bolas Voldemort instead of Sauron, but Voldemort ended up a pathetic villain by the end of all that characterization too.*

Alternatively, how about Lil' Annie vs Darth Vader, if you don't like the other analogy.

All that said, I do think the Tarkir parts have been good.

*Full disclosure, I hate Harry Potter.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:14 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
astarael7 wrote:
Also the interesting bits of The Silmarilion were those bits where characters either rose or fell spectacularly. So I will double down on saying that Kate Elliot using effective framing and tone for the story she is choosing to tell.

She's not using the appropriate tone at all for the Ugin bits.
It's not wise to try to humanize characters like Sauron because it undercuts their whole schtick.
I mean, I totally recall when he plopped on his butt and said 'I'm stuck'... yep, makes for a great dark lord.
On the flip, what is probably more accurate a description of what she's doing is making Bolas Voldemort instead of Sauron, but Voldemort ended up a pathetic villain by the end of all that characterization too.*

Alternatively, how about Lil' Annie vs Darth Vader, if you don't like the other analogy.

All that said, I do think the Tarkir parts have been good.

*Full disclosure, I hate Harry Potter.

I feel like you're exactly right about what's wrong with the tone of the Bolas segments. It has been getting a little better, reading more "Just-so story" than the first episode, but there is SO DAMN MUCH of the emphasis on learning, discovery, and exploration that it feels like the characters are supposed to be small creatures in a big world. Also, I was kind of cool assuming that Arcades Sabboth invented the idea of Masonry, but now we know humans are at a level where they have sailing, possibly including transcontinental sailing? Two steps forward, one step back. Bolas' voice sounds better but Ugin is still wrong and this early age doesn't feel primordial enough... it's not the days of gods and monsters, its something a little later.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:18 pm 
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I think Bolas is gonna mind-freak the humans near the mountain, they all kill each other, and something happens that causes Ugin to planeswalk, and Bolas assumes he is dead. Ugin returns, confronts Bolas, and at some point the EDW begins

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:25 pm 
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Barinellos wrote:
astarael7 wrote:
Also the interesting bits of The Silmarilion were those bits where characters either rose or fell spectacularly. So I will double down on saying that Kate Elliot using effective framing and tone for the story she is choosing to tell.

She's not using the appropriate tone at all for the Ugin bits.
It's not wise to try to humanize characters like Sauron because it undercuts their whole schtick.
I mean, I totally recall when he plopped on his butt and said 'I'm stuck'... yep, makes for a great dark lord.
On the flip, what is probably more accurate a description of what she's doing is making Bolas Voldemort instead of Sauron, but Voldemort ended up a pathetic villain by the end of all that characterization too.*
Maybe that's the crux of it: in my view, Sauron is not a character. He has no emotional arc, no journey or struggle, lacks any modicum of development, and only just barely possesses a motivation. But this is fine because he is not the focus of the story (referring specifically to LotR here), merely the antagonist who needs to be overcome. But the flip side of that is that there is nothing interesting or compelling about him either. There're no complexities or tensions in his make-up and he remains exactly the same at the end as he is at the beginning. Which again is fine, because nothing in LotR needs or relies on a interesting, complex, motivated, or compelling antagonist.

But if you're going to tell a story about something, (and especially an origin story about something) that thing absolutely should be a character and have all the things which that entails: complexities, tensions, explicit motivations, flaws, mistakes, an arc, a struggle, and especially development. I utterly reject the notion that a story that is going to follow and watch Ugin and Nicol Bolas should preserve them as inscrutable forces of will, described only in wild gestures of mythopoetic vagueness. The one place that has been done, it was done very effectively about the one entity in this story that I would agree absolutely deserves that treatment: the appearance of The Ur-Dragon at the very beginning.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:29 pm 
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Today's UR (Magic Story): Chronicle of Bolas: Whispers of Treachery

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After risking her peoples’ lives to save Tae Jin, Yasova demands he finish his story of Bolas and Ugin, revealing its dark conclusion.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:26 pm 
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Welp, unless Bolas Sparked up off-screen, it seems Ugin was actually the first of the twins to become a 'Walker.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:57 pm 
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I'm noticing a very odd sun motif in this series.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:35 pm 
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I actually really liked this story for how it ties into the earlier story of Ugin's death. Seeing Bolas do the little manipulations here to ruin the threat of the humans just reminds me of the big deception he pulls where he turns Tarkir against Ugin. It's the same tactic he learned early on but on a bigger scale and it made this story pull at my heart a bit. It reminds me that Ugin sadly doesn't learn from this story about how much Bolas is truly capable of. Ugin might have planeswalked away from Bolas but he never really got away.


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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:40 am 
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https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... 2018-07-16

No story, but I like that Ravnica is being associated more with than as it should always be.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:43 am 
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Today's UR (Magic Story): CHRONICLES OF BOLAS: BLOOD AND FIRE

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:34 am 
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Been enjoying the story so far. Some of it stumbles a bit, and I kind of predicted it happening exactly this way, but eh, such is the way of telling prequel events.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:52 am 
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This feels like a localization of the Elder Dragon Wars. Instead of planar-spanning battles, everything seems neatly contained in one unnamed world.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:38 pm 
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If Bolas is the sun is Tamiyo the moon or Ugin the moon?

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:19 pm 
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If Bolas is the sun is Tamiyo the moon or Ugin the moon?

Ugin is the moon, Tamiyo is just the fanfiction writer shipping them.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:43 pm 
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The Bolas-sun motifs are pretty interesting to be honest. First introduced in regards to the sun (first and last to see the sun on Dominaria), bright yellow palette with suns overhead, now the Second Sun in AMonkhet and the Sun in Ixalan and the bakstory, plus all his spells being described as bright light. Then this backstory always taking a moment to compare him with the sun!

Why s he even Grixis again?

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:21 pm 
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The Bolas-sun motifs are pretty interesting to be honest. First introduced in regards to the sun (first and last to see the sun on Dominaria), bright yellow palette with suns overhead, now the Second Sun in AMonkhet and the Sun in Ixalan and the bakstory, plus all his spells being described as bright light. Then this backstory always taking a moment to compare him with the sun!

Why s he even Grixis again?

Because white has no rightful claim upon the sun

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:08 pm 
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The Bolas-sun motifs are pretty interesting to be honest. First introduced in regards to the sun (first and last to see the sun on Dominaria), bright yellow palette with suns overhead, now the Second Sun in AMonkhet and the Sun in Ixalan and the bakstory, plus all his spells being described as bright light. Then this backstory always taking a moment to compare him with the sun!

Why s he even Grixis again?

Bolas is very much Sun-as-Red, though. He is not life-giving, he's burning and destructive, an untouchable force that radiates destructive energy. White's conception of the sun is as the power that banishes the darkness, Bolas's conception of the sun is as a source of energy; if he has any revelatory traits, they're couched in his :u: elements, even :u::b:, given his concern with secrets and lies. Even when Bolas does reveal the truth, as seen in the Hours, it's the kind of truth that makes you want to flee from the terrible light of knowledge into the comfort and safety of a new dark age.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:12 am 
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Bolas authorizing Lord Dark to deploy Lady Orca and his rant about wiping out Tetsuo's bloodline are both fairly red responses.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:54 pm 
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AzureShade wrote:
This feels like a localization of the Elder Dragon Wars. Instead of planar-spanning battles, everything seems neatly contained in one unnamed world.


Because then they would have to acknowledge that there used to be characters able to planeswalk that weren't planeswalkers.

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 Post subject: Re: Uncharted Realms
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:18 pm 
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Question about the Windgrace planeswalker card. In Planar Chaos, Windgrace was kind of like a planeswalking maro spirit, right? Might that be why WOTC decided to give Windgrace's card a 'lands matter' theme?

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