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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:49 am 
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A couple of things brought rise to this idea. First, it was the You Make The Booster Pack. It gave me the idea to create a First Nations flavored set. Then, I was picking through the sets I have published on this site, and I realized that while there were gems of cards in the files, over all the sets were a mess with ideas all over the place.

This is my attempt at making a balanced, playable set that isn't just a mishmash of YMTC flavor or Card of the Week wins.

That being said, I would like to see what everyone thinks of some of my budding ideas before I run away with them and make mistakes right at the beginning. Namely, in the mechanics.

I have so far chosen Totem Armor to make a come back, as it fits the flavor of the set very well.

After that, I am considering Threshold, for the flavor of ancestors and cards that have come before making an impact. However, I am also considered a new keyword called Seven Generation, which is a philosophy of the Iroquois nation that every decision we make for future generations should consider up the the seventh from where we are now. Keyworded, I was thinking:

Seventh Generation (Whenever you would draw a card, you may return this card from your graveyard to your hand instead.)

A couple of examples:

Scorch the Fields
Sorcery (U)
Search your library for a basic land card, reveal it and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
Seventh Generation (Whenever you would draw a card, you may return this card from your graveyard to your hand instead.)

First Nations people would use controlled burns to modify the environment, creating fields or modifying forests, manipulating their environment for the betterment of the tribe and future generations.

Tales of Heroes
Sorcery (C)
Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature.
Seventh Generation (Whenever you would draw a card, you may return this card from your graveyard to your hand instead.)

Effect seems minor enough, yet still good that it shouldn't be too unbalanced.

Wigwam
Artifact (C)
: Prevent the next 1 damage that would be dealt to any target.
Seventh Generation (Whenever you would draw a card, you may return this card from your graveyard to your hand instead.)

People passing down information on how to survive in the bush and off the land. They can always make shelter if needed.

I also want to use it as a way to convey the passing down of stories, which often includes monsters.

Skadegamutc, Ghost Witch
Creature - Wizard Spirit (U)
Deathtouch
Seventh Generation (Whenever you would draw a card, you may return this card from your graveyard to your hand instead.)
2/2

Stick Spirits
Creature - Treefolk Spirit (C)
When Stick Spirits enters the battlefield, discard a card.
Trample
Seventh Generation (Whenever you would draw a card, you may return this card from your graveyard to your hand instead.)
4/2

Two things:

1) Is this mechanic a good idea? You lose a card draw, and I plan to design the cards that have this ability so it can't be abused (effects and mana cost) - Generally cards with Seventh Generation will be slight overcosted to help balance its re-usability.
2) Is it a good idea to include this mechanic in a set with Threshold? One wants cards in the yard, the other removes cards from the yard. They work against each other, but only in a minor way (around the 7 card mark), and it might help keep Seventh Generation in check, while hopefully creating some tension on when to activate it? I don't want any of the Seventh Generation cards to be "Yes of course I will lose my card draw". Going for mostly utility.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:08 am 
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seems really hard to balance. Dredge is probably the closest relative and it probably ended up being underwhelming or overhwhelming in most cases.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:09 am 
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this isn't as bad as dredge though since it doesn't also enable itself

idk how interesting the mechanic is though.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:11 am 
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feels like it'd probably lead to pretty repetitive games, at least on any proactive card.

:duel:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:18 am 
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Repetition could definitely be an issue. I don't want that. I think there are a lot of mechanics I could use that pretty much do these things already, such as Flashback, Aftermath, Embalm, Recover, etc.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:58 am 
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yeah unbounded recursion rarely leads to fun situations. the cards have to be strong enough that you'd want them even once, but if they are then why wouldn't you want them again?

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I tend to agree with Razor.

Pro Tour: YMTC: SECOND ONE IS OVER STAY TUNED FOR THIRD ONE
The BLOCK I'm currently pretending I'll finish: Fleets Of Ossia (complete!) | Wavebreak (complete!) | The Second Flood (in progress!)
Razorborne and friends teach music theory to chumps like you: 12tone


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:18 pm 
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Possible workaround

If you would draw a card after your first, you may return this card to its owner's hand instead.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:36 am 
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Possible workaround

If you would draw a card after your first, you may return this card to its owner's hand instead.

ooh, that would be interesting. not sure if it fits the flavor, but it's a clever idea. would limit which colors can feasibly do it, but that's ok, not everything should be all colors anyway.

:duel:

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I tend to agree with Razor.

Pro Tour: YMTC: SECOND ONE IS OVER STAY TUNED FOR THIRD ONE
The BLOCK I'm currently pretending I'll finish: Fleets Of Ossia (complete!) | Wavebreak (complete!) | The Second Flood (in progress!)
Razorborne and friends teach music theory to chumps like you: 12tone


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:52 am 
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I think it still fits the flavor. The wisdom of your ancestors is there if you choose to try and leverage it, and its definitely less broken then. Time to play around with that idea a bit.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:49 am 
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Abandoning Seven Generation. Too many issues and it tightly controls the kinds of cards I can make, not just in power level, but also whenever I want to add card draw.

Now, for some first draft cards in the file:

Gaasyendietha, Serpent of Meteors
Legendary Creature - Dragon (R)
Flying, haste
: Gaasyendietha gets +1/+0 until end of turn.
Whenever you tap a Mountain for mana, add . Spend this mana only on spells or abilities with in its cost.
4/5

A dragon thought to live in Lake Ontario that crashed to the earth as a ball of flame.

Atahensic, Sky Godess
Legendary Creature - Spirit (M)
Whenever a nontoken creature enters the battlefield, create a token copy of it, then sacrifice a creature.
5/5

A Mother Figure that gave birth to Good and Evil.

Hah-nu-nah, the Turtle
Legendary Creature - Beast Spirit (M)
Trample
Whenever you play a land, put a +1/+1 counter on Hah-nu-nah.
You may play an additional land on each of your turns.
1/1

The Turtle that carries the world on its back.

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Last edited by Dudibus on Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:30 pm 
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might need another nontoken rider for Atahensic, otherwise it creates a broken game state by itself.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:41 pm 
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oops yes.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:46 am 
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Summer Lotus
Artifact (M)
Threshold — Sacrifice Summer Lotus: Add three mana of any one color.

Mindless Hunger
Sorcery (C)
Exile target creature and target creature card in a graveyard.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:44 pm 
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Djieien, Endless One
Legendary Creature ─ Spider Lich (R)
Indestructible, menace
When Djieien, Endless One enters the battlefield, target opponent reveals their hand. You name a nonland card revealed in this way.
Djieien, Endless One loses indestructible when the named card is cast.
5/4
He hid his heart in a place darker than his soul.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:42 pm 
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I think this would be better as an enchantment effect.

Seventh generation [COST] (This enters the battlefield with seven generation counters. Pay [COST] to remove a generation counter from this permanent)

Example

Scorch the Fields
Enchantment (U)
Seventh generation (This enters the battlefield with seven generation counters. Pay [COST] to remove a generation counter from this permanent)
Whenever a generation counter is removed from Scorch the fields during a main phase, search your library for a basic land card, reveal it and put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.

Tales of Heroes
Sorcery (C)
(Indicator-Green)
Seventh Generation
Whenever a generation counter is removed from Tales of Heroes, Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:17 pm 
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Hmmm....interesting. Like the ability to keep copying an ability. I like it. Will experiment with it.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:26 pm 
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I feel like 7 is so many counters that the fact that they can theoretically run out will just never come up though.

:duel:

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I tend to agree with Razor.

Pro Tour: YMTC: SECOND ONE IS OVER STAY TUNED FOR THIRD ONE
The BLOCK I'm currently pretending I'll finish: Fleets Of Ossia (complete!) | Wavebreak (complete!) | The Second Flood (in progress!)
Razorborne and friends teach music theory to chumps like you: 12tone


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:42 am 
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Ya-o-gah, North Wind
Legendary Creature ─ Beast Spirit (U)
Trample
Ya-o-gah, North Wind enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters.
Whenever you cast a spell with in its cost, put that many +1/+1 counters on Ya-o-gah, North Wind.
0/0

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:21 am 
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For 7th generation, maybe the following could inhibit recursive issues.

Seventh Generation (If this spell was cast from your hand, instead of putting it into your graveyard, exile it instead. If you would draw a card, you may cast this spell from exile instead).

A mashup of Dredge and Rebound technology with a bit of Jump-start. For what it is worth, indefinitely recursive keywords are hard to balance (see Dredge, Retrace, probably another)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:37 am 
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I have officially given up on Seventh Generation. I have been designing cards like crazy for it and it really doesn't need it and I am too worried about it getting out of hand.

Magic has plenty of keywords for me to use that do pretty much what I wanted for recursion anyways, and aren't busted.

I really appreciate the help everyone, thank you!

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